[btu2012]

Tex> The Ishmael trilogy.

You seem to have a rather strange perception of my motives.

I wonder where you got it.

I wonder if the following looks like a reasonable reaction to you, and what you think about the Guru-groupie phenomenon:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Written between the lines of every PO article here is Daniel Quinn. He is but a mere man who just happens to "get it." Your trolling here is nothing more than trying to kill the messenger. Assassinating his character proves nothing. Not one damn thing. If a Western Roman collapse leads to the human race going extinct then we deserve it. Such is the price we pay for breaking the true Laws of Nature while that bible crap is still laughable at how petty it is. People who understand this book may stand a shot at living while others like yourself can deal with Gaia when she comes to your door to collect.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', 'T')ex> The Ishmael trilogy.

[btu2012]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'O')kay, cool. Just wondering. I'm surprised you could get through all three since they are apparently very similar.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', 'A')nd let us know what you think of his work and his followers once you read some of that. I would definitely enjoy hearing your informed opinion. It's bound to be highly balanced and insightful.

[paimei01]

btu2012 if I read a book and I like it I become a follower ? I have read many books, I can very well think for myself. I agree with Daniel Quinn, I would not do whatever he says

No , we cannot become tribes again and save the world. The same way we cannot become communists and share, and live happily ever after.
People cannot do it, you can't arrange them in a shape you think will work and expect them do stay in that shape like a stack of wood.

Now my choice for saving this world is what Cuba did after 1990 + no money, everything local, and never take more than you need from nature with the purpose of "selling" it.

I do not know if it will work, even if everybody would do all they can for it.
I have no better idea, humans are not only asleep because they do not know about peak oil ,they are asleep even when they find out, and try to maintain the "consumer society" after that

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')elieve nothing on the faith of traditions,
even though they have been held in honor
for many generations and in diverse places.
Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it.
Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past.
Do not believe what you yourself have imagined,
persuading yourself that a God inspires you.
Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests.
After examination, believe what you yourself have tested
and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto."

Buddha

[shakespear1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'never take more than you need')

This way of thinking would need to be taught as a community,family value and reinforced in the schools and the media. An alliance of these forces would require a lot of energy and time to forge.

[btu2012]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('paimei01', 'I') have read many books, I can very well think for myself. I agree with Daniel Quinn, I would not do whatever he says

[btu2012]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'I') predict I will like it more than you but less than Ludi.

[paimei01]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', '
')
Regarding Cuba, they do live in a "communist" dictatorship which might explain why some of the things they do look like they are working a bit better than they actually are. We don't have unbiased information about Cuba, so I would be careful using them as a model. Unless you are happy with a despotic form of government implementing a post peak oil program.

Many aspects of what goes on in Cuba seems to be quite similar with what happened in your country during the Ceausescu era.

[btu2012]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('paimei01', 'A')bout the dictatorship : I am sure Cuba is not as bad as Romania used to be, and even here it was not bad at all.

[paimei01]

I know nobody, and nobody ever told me anything about that

Yes that regime was a dictatorship and they killed and imprisoned opponents, most of this stuff happened in 1950 when people were forced to give up their lands to form collective farms
And ever after that, if you write or say anything against the regime you could lose your job, go to prison, get killed

[btu2012]

I am talking about Ceausescu, i.e. after 1965.

There was pervasive spying on the population run by the Securitate. A very large number of informers, phones being listened to etc.

How old are you paimei ? Do you have any direct experience of that ?



Securitate

Brasov Rebelion

Ceausima

Hunger circus

Jiu valley strikes

July Theses

SLOMR

Systematization

http://www.presidency.ro/static/ordine/ ... CPADCR.pdf

Romanian dissidents

Ceausescu family

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')I predict I will like it more than you but less than Ludi.

[btu2012]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('paimei01', 'I') believe you in the USA were told that communism means gray concentration camps where people are forced to work, by tyrants who can't wait to launch some nukes

[paimei01]

We were talking about Cuba , did you see the movie I posted ? You cannot compare Cuba with Romania, to say that there is a dictatorship there as bad as it was here

I did say it was a dictatorship, and people were jailed, and killed what more do you want ? Why do you say I fantasize about those days ?
I was born in 1980, when the revolution came I was 10 years old. Yes those pictures look nice, I tell you that nothing happened on my street, what you see there was in the city center. Gunfire could be heard but nothing else, and we got a 3 month school break in the middle of the school year
1000 died in the entire country during that revolution

About Cuban immigrants : do they still cross to Florida ? How many ? I thought that happened in 1990 -94 when they had oil problems

I am sure the dictatorship in Cuba is not the same as it was here. Give me a piece of land to farm in a village and I need nothing else. Of course I cannot do that here, they want me to pay taxes, so I have to sell stuff or be part of the system and work.
Look we have a democracy now. Can I stop paying taxes ? And still be free and not in jail after that ? if you think now we are free
Yes I can talk about it. Who cares

[btu2012]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('paimei01', 'W')e were talking about Cuba , did you see the movie I posted ? You cannot compare Cuba with Romania, to say that there is a dictatorship there as bad as it was here

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')Who is claiming all civilizations are "evil" and destructive? Not me

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')Actually, you impugn civilization in many threads--Civilization without any qualification. Civilization is a pretty broad term.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')How will you feed a massive population without fossil fuels? I would suggest Biointensive gardening and permaculture, myself, but I don't know if it could support our population.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')Then you'd be going beyond the pure thrust of sites like anthropik which seem to advocate an all or nothing return to hunter-gatherer.