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This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 05:03:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Drifter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'T')hat top first page chart compared US with 20 other nations, not the rest of the world. (Seemed from the post as if this was missed.)


Understand what you are saying. Thanks for the clarification. That may explain the 'missing' consumption.

Still, in 2004 the US consumed more gasoline than the world's other top 20 gasoline consumers combined. :shock:


and more than 40% of the world's total gasoline consumed.
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 05:44:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Drifter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Drifter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'T')hat top first page chart compared US with 20 other nations, not the rest of the world. (Seemed from the post as if this was missed.)


Understand what you are saying. Thanks for the clarification. That may explain the 'missing' consumption.

Still, in 2004 the US consumed more gasoline than the world's other top 20 gasoline consumers combined. :shock:


and more than 40% of the world's total gasoline consumed.


That's just plain scary. 8O

And.. the US has 5 percent of the world's population, but every day consumes 40% of the world's gasoline. 8O 8O


Go to the xls page for consumption of refined product

In thousands of barrels of gasoline per day

USA = 9,105.41
World = 20865.96

USA = 43.6 % of world gasoline consumption
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby TheDude » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 06:43:14

We import ca. 1.2 mboe/d of gasoline:

Image

Thus the discrepancy between the figures for oil and gasoline usage. We use around 338 million gallons/day, thus 123.37 billion gallons/year. Contrast that with 4.5 billion gallons ethanol production/year.
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 06:47:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'W')e import ca. 1.2 mboe/d of gasoline:

Image

Thus the discrepancy between the figures for oil and gasoline usage. We use around 338 million gallons/day, thus 123.37 billion gallons/year. Contrast that with 4.5 billion gallons ethanol production/year.


I'm a little on the slow side Dude, I need a couple more sentences to help me understand. Does that mean that because we import the gasoline and not the oil that it does not count toward our 25% oil usage? Or are you saying something else?
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby Dont_Panic » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 06:50:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mlit', 'I')'m not sure its really acurate as we use about a quarter of the worlds oil but this chart make is look like we consume more than half. I'm not sure what all they are using to come up with this



The right side of the chart isn't the rest of the world, only a small selection of countries.

Still interesting.
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby pedalling_faster » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 09:05:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Drifter', 'A')nd.. the US has 5 percent of the world's population, but every day consumes 40% of the world's gasoline. 8O 8O


i don't know if it's a silver lining or a saving grace or what. America uses so much gasoline that using 20-25% less would be not that difficult.

it means thinking more like a European. e.g. to get to an ag. class, i will have to car-pool. or we will have to beg the instructor for a van going from the town for the 30 mile drive to the farm.

the problem being the "trickle-down" semi-free-market economy in America. a reduction in gasoline use of 20-25% equivals to an economic contraction. this affects poor & middle class people hugely. if they had a safety net so they knew they wouldn't lose their home if they lost their job, it would be a less horrible proposition.

the problem isn't just that America has built a society based on cheap gas, it's also that America has built a society where people start losing their jobs en masse when there's an economic contraction associated with reduced gasoline use.
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby SoylentGreen » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 13:37:56

The refining process that Americans use also maximize Gasoline per barrel of Oil. The American process yields almost 50% gasoline per barrel.
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby Stealth » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 16:07:29

It would be interesting to have some graph that shows world Diesel consumption per country. Europe for example has much more cars powered by Diesel than the US, so Europe might use less gasoline but make up for it with higher usage of Diesel.
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby VMarcHart » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 16:42:22

I'm sure that graph was right.

I'd be interesting to see the US citizen/resident daily gasoline consumption versus other countries' citizens/residents.

How and where do I start a thread asking what's your monthly gasoline consumption? Thanks!
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby TheDude » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 21:40:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoylentGreen', 'T')he refining process that Americans use also maximize Gasoline per barrel of Oil. The American process yields almost 50% gasoline per barrel.


That's the other side of the equation. We refine so much gasoline compared to most nations that it beefs up our daily share of worldwide usage.

From the EIA: Where Does My Gasoline Come From?
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby Revi » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 21:55:52

Cars in the EU mostly burn diesel. They are a lot more efficient than the tanks we drive, but the EU uses a lot more diesel. So does the rest of the world. That's why diesel is more expensive than gasoline. We are using the gasoline, they the diesel. I heard that sour crude doesn't make as much diesel. Is that true?

We can't possibly continue the way we drive. As I drive I look to see which cars will be on the road in 5 years. Most of them won't. But that may be okay, because the smaller cars usually have 5 seats in them and they can be transporting all the solo drivers we see now after their avalances and Z-71's are all taken to the scrap yard.
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby Electric_Economy_2025 » Sat 14 Jun 2008, 20:41:08

The U.S. government, as a whole, consumes not quite 2% of all the liquid fuel that the entire U.S. economy uses in a given year. That translates into about 440,000 barrels of oil per day, or slightly more than the entire output of the oil field at Prudhoe Bay, when the pipelines are not shut down due to corrosion. Multiply by 365 days per year, and the U.S. government burns up about 160 million barrels of oil per year, at a cost of something over $10 billion at recent price levels.
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby ekaggata » Sun 15 Jun 2008, 05:19:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'C')ars in the EU mostly burn diesel.

This is not true. The usage is much higher, but is not > 50%. More like 25%. But it is rising.
See Figure 1 in this pdf (report as of Jan 2007)
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby nocar » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 20:35:26

Gasoline is just one of many oil products. In many poor countries, I believe kerosene (Sp?) is widely used for cooking. Also some countries use oil for electricity generation. I am quite sure Russia and neighbouring countries heat their homes with oil in their brutal winters. Also perhaps Japan does that - although their winters are less brutal, there are many Japanese.

And how about all the plastic stuff and synthetic materials for clothes that is used for export goods in the 'emerging economies'?

Surely pointing out the great American gasoline use also points out the car-centered American lifestyle.

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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby VMarcHart » Tue 17 Jun 2008, 07:58:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nocar', 'I')n many poor countries, I believe kerosene (Sp?) is widely used for cooking.
Do you have data for this?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nocar', 'A')lso some countries use oil for electricity generation. I am quite sure Russia and neighbouring countries heat their homes with oil in their brutal winters. Also perhaps Japan does that - although their winters are less brutal, there are many Japanese.
The U.S. does, and so did my house in Switzerland.
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Tue 17 Jun 2008, 10:42:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nocar', 'I')n many poor countries, I believe kerosene (Sp?) is widely used for cooking.
Do you have data for this?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nocar', 'A')lso some countries use oil for electricity generation. I am quite sure Russia and neighbouring countries heat their homes with oil in their brutal winters. Also perhaps Japan does that - although their winters are less brutal, there are many Japanese.
The U.S. does, and so did my house in Switzerland.


Near the bottom of the page is a link to an xls file that contains Use of petrol products by type of refined product for all nations (2004)

I find it an amazing document and only haven't shared more from it due to time constraints.

I have tried a couple of ways of copying the information here but it comes out jumbled and difficult to decipher. I highly recommend following the link above and downloading the excel file
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: This chart cannot be correct, can it?!

Unread postby nocar » Tue 17 Jun 2008, 10:48:26

VMarch, about kerosene cooking, I just remember reading a booklet from Worldwatch Institute years ago how many countries, particularly in Asia, subsidize kerosene for cooking to help the poor. Usually it turns out to help the middle class more. The poorest use wood or perhaps cow dung.

About 50 years ago, when many Swedes had summer cottages without electricity, kerosene stoves were common here. So I have some first hand experience that they really work quite well.

On a side note, kerosene was used for hurricane lamps (Aladdin lamps?) and for cooking stoves before the age of cars. As I have the story, gasoline was a biproduct when making kerosene from crude, so gasoline cars made the oil companies very happy. Now they could sell the stuff. Does anybody know if that is true?

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