I think there is a very viable solution to solving our current energy crisis which is in turn causing inflation in nearly every industrial market, except the housing and automobile industry.
In the western United States (Colorado, Utah, Wyoming) we hvae ENORMOUS deposits of oil-shale...which is for the most part, solid oil. The estimated deposits there are approximately triple that of the oil reserves that Saudi Arabia has. It is more expensive to recover and process this oil-shale that conventional liquid petroleum. And, approx 75% of the deposits lie under gov't controlled land. I suggest that we invest our resources into developing the necessary technology to recover these vast supplies of oil more efficiently and use our own natural resources and move toward becoming less dependent on foreign oil.
The major issues lie with environmental lobbyists not wanting to harm the environment with the recovery and production of more "pollution causing ways of energy". I am not saying the environment is not important. We should continue to develop hydrogen, nuclear, and other renewable sources of energy. But if we can tap into these shale oil reserves, and use them to cover even a quarter of our current oil consumption, they will last for about 400 years. If by tapping into this enormous resource of energy in our own nation we can give our nation a more reasonable timeline to develop our energy infrastructure with nuclear, hydrogen, and other renewable sources. If not, sooner than later, our nation will face a national security crisis the likes we have not seen since we wont be able power our nation.
PeakOil is You
I think we can make a big step toward fixing everything...
I think we can make a big step toward fixing everything...
by SoberGoose » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 00:19:08
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SoberGoose - Wood
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Re: I think we can make a big step toward fixing everything.
by chenopodium » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 00:42:42
Take a look at this chart:
http://www.theoildrum.com/files/ch_balloon_tod.png
Do you see where the tar sands are? (oil shale is not even on the chart). It's hard to see, in the very lower left corner...
What this means? That it takes a huge amount of energy to extract oil from oil shale.
So to be optimistic, let's say oil shale has an eroi of 2:1, and imported oil 20:1. That means to replace 1 gallon of imported oil, you have to produce 10 gallons of oil from oil shale. And oil shale is not even oil, it has to be converted to oil, meaning it is a huge operation to get a tiny bit of oil from rock that has to be cooked first....
Maybe you should try to compute how many such "factories" would be needed to replace even percentage of imported oil... and compute how much such an infrastructure would even cost (ignoring the environmental impact, global warming etc....)
http://www.theoildrum.com/files/ch_balloon_tod.png
Do you see where the tar sands are? (oil shale is not even on the chart). It's hard to see, in the very lower left corner...
What this means? That it takes a huge amount of energy to extract oil from oil shale.
So to be optimistic, let's say oil shale has an eroi of 2:1, and imported oil 20:1. That means to replace 1 gallon of imported oil, you have to produce 10 gallons of oil from oil shale. And oil shale is not even oil, it has to be converted to oil, meaning it is a huge operation to get a tiny bit of oil from rock that has to be cooked first....
Maybe you should try to compute how many such "factories" would be needed to replace even percentage of imported oil... and compute how much such an infrastructure would even cost (ignoring the environmental impact, global warming etc....)
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chenopodium - Wood
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Re: I think we can make a big step toward fixing everything.
by SILENTTODD » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 00:55:37
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoberGoose', 'I')n the western United States (Colorado, Utah, Wyoming) we hvae ENORMOUS deposits of oil-shale...which is for the most part, solid oil. The estimated deposits there are approximately triple that of the oil reserves that Saudi Arabia has. It is more expensive to recover and process this oil-shale that conventional liquid petroleum. And, approx 75% of the deposits lie under gov't controlled land. I suggest that we invest our resources into developing the necessary technology to recover these vast supplies of oil more efficiently and use our own natural resources and move toward becoming less dependent on foreign oil.
SoberGoose, I don't want to come off like some of the flamers who you will see after me (or even before me) who will be replying to your post. This site has been going on for nearly 4 years, don't you think everyone who is involved with this subject has heard and investigated what you just stated? Let me just cut to the chase, Shale Oil is a joke within the Oil industry, "Shale Oil, the Energy of the Future, and always will be". No one has yet shown how you can produce more liquid fuel energy (gasoline) from shale oil than you use to produce it!
Learn this acronym by heart "EROEI"- Energy Return On Energy Investment
SoberGoose, let me point you to a couple of good books you need to read before you post again, and I mean this sincerely because I believe the difference between ignorance and stupidity is ignorance is curable, and I don't assume if your reading this site your stupid.
Read if nothing else:
"The Party's Over"- Richard Heinberg
"Out of Gas: The End of the Age of Oil" -David Goodstein
Last edited by SILENTTODD on Fri 13 Jun 2008, 01:19:20, edited 1 time in total.
Skeptical scrutiny in both Science and Religion is the means by which deep thoughts are winnowed from deep nonsense-Carl Sagan
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SILENTTODD - Tar Sands
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Re: I think we can make a big step toward fixing everything.
by MonteQuest » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 01:18:46
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoberGoose', 'I')n the western United States (Colorado, Utah, Wyoming) we hvae ENORMOUS deposits of oil-shale...which is for the most part, solid oil.
You said all you need to know about oil shale.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') suggest that we invest our resources into developing the necessary technology to recover these vast supplies of oil more efficiently and use our own natural resources and move toward becoming less dependent on foreign oil.
We cannot become less dependent upon foreign oil. Oil production in the US has been in terminal decline since 1971. No amount of drilling on the coastal plain, ANWR, or extracting oil shale will ever produce more than 1 or 2 mbpd of oil in any near term scenario.
We use 875,000 barrels an hour in the USA.
By the time these in-house resources come on line, we will use 1 mbpd hour or more and have declined another million or so barrels in domestic production.
By 2025 will will import 68% of our oil. Today we import about 60%. And only 17% of that inported oil comes form the Middle East. Our top two suppliers are Canada and Mexico.
The most we can hope for is to slow the rate of growth in our dependency upon foreign oil.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e should continue to develop hydrogen, nuclear, and other renewable sources of energy.
Sorry, hydrogen is not a source of energy nor is it renewable. Nuclear is not renewable either. Uranium is a finite resource.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut if we can tap into these shale oil reserves, and use them to cover even a quarter of our current oil consumption, they will last for about 400 years.
5.25 mbpd from oil shale?
Even tar sands won't do that by 2030. Tar sands production is now 1 million barrels a day and is projected to increase to 5mbpd by 2030.
400 years?
Let me give you a lesson in current consumption.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he US has about 250 billion tons of recoverable coal reserves. According to the EIA figures, we can see that we have 255 years of coal remaining in the year 2000 given our current rate of consumption. That prediction assumes equal use of all grades of coal, from anthracite to lignite. Population growth alone reduces the calculated lifetime to some 90-120 years. However, if we look back in history, we see that there were 300 years of coal reserves in 1988, 1000 years reserves in 1904, and 10,000 years reserves in 1868! As each year goes by, our coal consumption increases and we see that the projection becomes meaningless.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
