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Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

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Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby coberst » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 13:37:53

Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

All thought is saturated with egocentric and sociocentric presuppositions. That is, all thought contains highly motivating bias centered in the self or in ideologies such as political, religious, and economic theories. Some individuals are conscious of these internal forces but most people are not.

Those individuals who are conscious of these biases within their thinking can try to rid their judgments of that influence. Those who are not conscious, or little conscious of such bias, are bound to display a significant degree of irrational tendencies in their judgments.

“Can the intellectual, who is supposed to have a special and perhaps professional concern with truth, escape from or rise above the partiality and distortions of ideology?”

Our culture has tended to channel intellectuals, or perhaps more properly those who function as intellectuals, into academic professions. Gramsci makes the accurate distinction that all men and women “are intellectuals…but all do not have the function of intellectuals in society”.

An intellectual might be properly defined as those who are primarily or professionally concerned with matters of the mind and the imagination but who are socially non-attached. “The intellectual is thought of not as someone who displays great mental or imaginative ability but as someone who applies those abilities in more general areas such as religion, philosophy and social and political issues. It is the involvement in general and controversy outside of a specialization that is considered as the hallmark of an intellectual; it is a matter of choice of self definition, choice is supreme here.”

Even anti-ideological is ideological. If partisanship can be defended servility cannot; many have allowed themselves to become the tools of others.

We have moved into an age when the university is no longer an ivory tower and knowledge is king but knowledge has become a commodity and educators have become instruments of power; the university has become a privately owned think-tank.

“A profound change in the intellectual community itself is inherent in this development. The largely humanist-oriented, occasionally ideological minded intellectual dissenter , who saw his role largely in terms of proffering social critiques, is rapidly being displaced either by experts and specialist, who become involved in special government undertakings, or by generalist-integrators, who become house-ideologues for those in power, providing overall intellectual integration for disparate actions.”

The subordination to power is not just at the individual level but also at the institutional level. Government funds are made available to universities and colleges not for use as they deem fit but for specific government needs. Private industry plays even a larger role in providing funds for educational institutions to perform management and business study. Private industry is not inclined ‘to waste’ money on activities that do not contribute to the bottom line. ‘He who pays the piper calls the tune.’

Each intellectual is spouting a different ideology, how does the individual choose what ideology? Trotsky once said “only a participant can be a profound spectator”. Is detachment then a virtue? To suggest that intellectuals rise above ideology is impractical. Explicit commitment is preferable to bogus neutrality. But truth is an indispensable touchstone.

I think that the proper role for the intellectual is commitment plus detachment. Do you think many of our present day intellectuals qualify as committed and detached?

Quotes and ideas from “Knowledge and Belief in Politics” Bhikhu Parekh
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Re: Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 13:52:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coberst', 'G')ramsci makes the accurate distinction that all men and women “are intellectuals…”


Actually, no.

All men and women are not intellectuals. The vast majority of men and women aren't smart enough or well educated enough or even sufficiently interested in the world about them to be intellectuals.
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Re: Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 14:11:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coberst', 'G')ramsci makes the accurate distinction that all men and women “are intellectuals…”


Actually, no.

All men and women are not intellectuals.
I'm not an intellectual, but I play one on TV. The Dada Intellectual. Maybe you've seen me, furrowed brow, palm on my chin & fingering my cheek.
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Re: Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 14:20:08

Image

You are the dada intellectual? Really?
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Re: Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 14:28:28

C'est moi. The reincarnation of Marcel Duchamp.
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Re: Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 14:36:23

Image

Wow! Can I have your very intellectual autograph, please?
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Re: Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 15:03:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '[')img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/Flanders_with_Parents.png[/img]

Wow! Can I have your very intellectual autograph, please?
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Re: Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 15:52:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coberst', 'G')ramsci makes the accurate distinction that all men and women “are intellectuals…”


Actually, no.

All men and women are not intellectuals.
I'm not an intellectual, but I play one on TV. The Dada Intellectual. Maybe you've seen me, furrowed brow, palm on my chin & fingering my cheek.



A Dada intellectual? I would be more inclined to believe you if you said your art belongs to Dada.
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Re: Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby Kylon » Thu 12 Jun 2008, 17:56:23

THe word "Intellectual" is as subjective as art.

According to this guy's definition, Marx, Lenin, and Adam Smith would be an intellectual, but Albert Einstein would not be.

I'm sure most scientist(people who actually discover real phenomenon related to the REAL world) who disagree with Gramsci's definition.

Furthermore, I bet most Communist leaders during the reign of Communism would not see Adam Smith as an intellectual, but rather a "pseudo-intellectual" as what he would say could be construed as a tool of the "capitalist pigs" trying to keep the common worker down.

Furthermore, few here or elsewhere would consider Adolf Hitler a great intellectual. But there are many Neo-Nazis who probably would, as they respect his ideas.

All in all, I think intellectual is simply a term people use to say they respect someone elses ideas, greatly. Or who think that these people's ideas are of high value and are advancing society the way they think society needs to be advanced(if your black you probably favor(or think it's advancement) more resources being redirected towards/for blacks, meanwhile if your white the opposite is probably true).

It's kind of like the term "noble". I think X person is noble. What I think is noble depends on my values. If what people think is noble depends on their values, then standards for nobility change from person to person.

The same is true for the term intellectual.

By the way he talks about how an intellectual is someone who works on social sciences, philosophy and religion, he probably respects those fields more than the hard, natural sciences, or the technology fields.

I wouldn't be suprised if he was a "philosopher" or a social scientist himself.
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Re: Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby kakkerlak » Thu 12 Jun 2008, 20:00:27

Pftt...many difficult words. *reads dictionary*
I always enjoy reading your posts. :)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')All thought is saturated with egocentric and sociocentric presuppositions. That is, all thought contains highly motivating bias centered in the self or in ideologies such as political, religious, and economic theories. Some individuals are conscious of these internal forces but most people are not.


It seems to me that many people do make the mistake to confuse fact, theory and opinion with each other. So opinion becomes fact and fact becomes theory. You can see this wrong way of thinking in for example "intelligent design". Evolution becomes nothing more then theory and the creation of the universe by God becomes a fact instead of an opinion.

(You need data/evidence in order to create a theory, right?)

To elaborate on that further. One wrong assumption easily made is for example that life can only exist if liquid water is present. This assumption is made because this seems to be the case on Earth; forgetting other possibility's.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')“Can the intellectual, who is supposed to have a special and perhaps professional concern with truth, escape from or rise above the partiality and distortions of ideology?”


I should quote someone like Buddha right now, but can't find a nice one. To use my own words: You have to disconnect yourself from the world, in thought.

This does sound a bit weird so i try to use an example here. Compare it with computer programming. When you write a new program you start with an empty screen and nothing exist yet. Slowly, using logic and variables, you can then build a program. And everything in this program is reduced to logic and variables.

So, in order to rise above these distortions of ideology you have to start "clean" before you can attempt to discover the truth; reducing everything to logic and variables. It's a bit like math. ;)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')An intellectual might be properly defined as those who are primarily or professionally concerned with matters of the mind and the imagination but who are socially non-attached.

"socially non-attached"
What do you mean by this?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Each intellectual is spouting a different ideology, how does the individual choose what ideology?

This is fascinating; Which ideology is correct, if there is one correct ideology? And this will lead to questions like; is there an absolute truth or is it relative? And at this point opinions kick in. :(

*hoping to exchange more thoughts*
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Re: Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby coberst » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 06:55:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kylon', 'T')He word "Intellectual" is as subjective as art.

According to this guy's definition, Marx, Lenin, and Adam Smith would be an intellectual, but Albert Einstein would not be.

I'm sure most scientist(people who actually discover real phenomenon related to the REAL world) who disagree with Gramsci's definition.

By the way he talks about how an intellectual is someone who works on social sciences, philosophy and religion, he probably respects those fields more than the hard, natural sciences, or the technology fields.

I wouldn't be suprised if he was a "philosopher" or a social scientist himself.


I suspect that "scientist" is as subjective as art.

I am a retired electronics engineer who has a hobby of self-actualizing self-leaning.
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Re: Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby coberst » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 07:12:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kakkerlak', 'P')ftt...many difficult words. *reads dictionary*
I always enjoy reading your posts.


(You need data/evidence in order to create a theory, right?)

I should quote someone like Buddha right now, but can't find a nice one. To use my own words: You have to disconnect yourself from the world, in thought.

This does sound a bit weird so i try to use an example here. Compare it with computer programming. When you write a new program you start with an empty screen and nothing exist yet. Slowly, using logic and variables, you can then build a program.

So, in order to rise above these distortions of ideology you have to start "clean" before you can attempt to discover the truth; reducing everything to logic and variables. It's a bit like math. ;)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')An intellectual might be properly defined as those who are primarily or professionally concerned with matters of the mind and the imagination but who are socially non-attached.

"socially non-attached"
What do you mean by this?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Each intellectual is spouting a different ideology, how does the individual choose what ideology?

This is fascinating; Which ideology is correct, if there is one correct ideology? And this will lead to questions like; is there an absolute truth or is it relative? And at this point opinions kick in. :(

*hoping to exchange more thoughts*
Have fun!
Roach


I would say that a theory is an hypothesis that has received a lot of expert attention.

I do not want to argue with Buddha but one can as easily step out of his or her skin as to disconnect him or her self from the world. Nor does even a software engineer start with a blank slate.

We bring our whole past with us when we think about anything. The best hat we can do is to recognize this fact and to constantly try to update the past as well as we can.

We are all filled with various ideologies and the more we try to examine these ideologies the more likely we are to make good judgments.

Critical Thinking: Art and science of good judgment

The first step toward solving our problems is to learn CT (Critical Thinking).

CT is an acronym for Critical Thinking. Everybody considers themselves to be a critical thinker. That is why we need to differentiate among different levels of critical thinking.

Most people fall in the category that I call Reagan thinkers—trust but verify. Then there are those who have taken the basic college course taught by the philosophy dept that I call Logic 101. This is a credit course that teaches the basic principles of reasoning. Of course, a person need not take the college course and can learn the matter on their own effort, but I suspect few do that.

The third level I call CT (Critical Thinking). CT includes the knowledge of Logic 101 and also the knowledge that focuses upon the intellectual character and attitude of critical thinking. It includes knowledge regarding the ego and social centric forces that impede rational thinking.

Most decisions we have to make are judgment calls. A judgment call is made when we must make a decision when there is no “true” or “false” answers. When we make a judgment call our decision is bad, good, or better.

Many factors are involved: there are the available facts, assumptions, skills, knowledge, and especially personal experience and attitude. I think that the two most important elements in the mix are personal experience and attitude.

When we study math we learn how to use various algorithms to facilitate our skill in dealing with quantities. If we never studied math we could deal with quantity on a primary level but our quantifying ability would be minimal. Likewise with making judgments; if we study the art and science of good judgment we can make better decisions and if we never study the art and science of judgment our decision ability will remain minimal.

I am convinced that a fundamental problem we have in this country (USA) is that our citizens have never learned the art and science of good judgment. Before the recent introduction of CT into our schools and colleges our young people have been taught primarily what to think and not how to think. All of us graduated with insufficient comprehension of the knowledge, skills, and attitude necessary for the formulation of good judgment. The result of this inability to make good judgment is evident and is dangerous.

I am primarily interested in the judgment that adults exercise in regard to public issues. Of course, any improvement in judgment generally will affect both personal and community matters.

To put the matter into a nut shell:
1. Normal men and women can significantly improve their ability to make judgments.
2. CT is the domain of knowledge that delineates the knowledge, skills, and intellectual character demanded for good judgment.
3. CT has been introduced into our schools and colleges slowly in the last two or three decades.
4. Few of today’s adults were ever taught CT.
5. I suspect that at least another two generations will pass before our society reaps significant rewards resulting from teaching CT to our children.
6. Can our democracy survive that long?
7. I think that every effort must be made to convince today’s adults that they need to study and learn CT on their own. I am not suggesting that adults find a teacher but I am suggesting that adults become self-actualizing learners.
8. I am convinced that learning the art and science of Critical Thinking is an important step toward becoming a better citizen in today’s democratic society.

Questions for discussion//

Have you ever had a course in Critical Thinking in any educational institution?

Have your children ever had a course in Critical Thinking in any educational institution?




Perhaps you are not familiar with CT. I first encountered the concept about five years ago. The following are a few Internet sites that will familiarize you with the matter.

http://www.freeinquiry.com/critical-notes.html

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:mk ... clnk&cd=11

http://www.chss.montclair.edu/inquiry/f ... inste.html

http://www.criticalthinking.org/resourc ... sary.shtml

http://www.doit.gmu.edu/inventio/past/d ... sID=eslava
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Re: Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby Hagakure_Leofman » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 08:28:09

We can thank Aristotle for us arguing over niggling definitions.
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Re: Intellectual: Largely Social Critique

Unread postby kakkerlak » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 09:24:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I do not want to argue with Buddha but one can as easily step out of his or her skin as to disconnect him or her self from the world. Nor does even a software engineer start with a blank slate.

We bring our whole past with us when we think about anything. The best hat we can do is to recognize this fact and to constantly try to update the past as well as we can.

Yes, i didn't try to say that Buddha has all the answers. A quote would just sounds pretty. :P

The computer programming analogy isn't that bad, i think. After all, without knowledge about the programming language you can't write programs. And even knowing the language doesn't guarantee a good program. So, this knowledge can be compared to the past, experiences and all other stuff you need in order to make sense of the world.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I am convinced that a fundamental problem we have in this country (USA) is that our citizens have never learned the art and science of good judgment. Before the recent introduction of CT into our schools and colleges our young people have been taught primarily what to think and not how to think. All of us graduated with insufficient comprehension of the knowledge, skills, and attitude necessary for the formulation of good judgment. The result of this inability to make good judgment is evident and is dangerous.

Not only in the USA.
Do you really have "critical thinking" in schools? Wow! :shock:
As you said; we learn what to think and not how to think.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Have you ever had a course in Critical Thinking in any educational institution?

Never finished any school, course or education. I discovered that i can learn everything, given enough motivation and time behind a computer.

I still like to describe myself as a critical thinker but as you said; everybody considers him/her self critical. There is an un-written rule in the "hacker world" saying that only another hacker can decide if you're a hacker (not to be confused with "cracker").

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Google Search', '[')b]Define:hacker
A slang term for a computer enthusiast. Among professional programmers, the term hacker implies an amateur or a programmer who lacks formal training. Depending on how it is used, the term can be either complimentary or derogatory, although it is developing an increasingly derogatory connotation.
...
Originally used to describe a computer enthusiast who pushed a system to its highest performance through clever programming.
...
Originally, a hacker was a term of respect, used among computer programmers, designers, and engineers. The hacker was one who created original and ingenious programs.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Perhaps you are not familiar with CT. I first encountered the concept about five years ago. The following are a few Internet sites that will familiarize you with the matter.

I'm not directly familiar with the words "critical thinking" in the sense that i can't precisely define 'em. But the concepts of thinking are not new; ancient Greek philosophers also practiced "critical thinking".

btw...
Just found out that the topic title is "largely social critique". And i completely agree on the critique.

To end this post, a nice and pretty sounding quote from Socrates;
~ "As for me, all I know is that I know nothing. ~"

Have fun!
Roach
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