by threadbear » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 15:52:21
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coberst', 'G')ramsci makes the accurate distinction that all men and women “are intellectuals…”
Actually, no.
All men and women are not intellectuals.
I'm not an intellectual, but I play one on TV. The Dada Intellectual. Maybe you've seen me, furrowed brow, palm on my chin & fingering my cheek.
A Dada intellectual? I would be more inclined to believe you if you said your art belongs to Dada.
by kakkerlak » Thu 12 Jun 2008, 20:00:27
Pftt...many difficult words. *reads dictionary*
I always enjoy reading your posts.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')All thought is saturated with egocentric and sociocentric presuppositions. That is, all thought contains highly motivating bias centered in the self or in ideologies such as political, religious, and economic theories. Some individuals are conscious of these internal forces but most people are not.
It seems to me that many people do make the mistake to confuse fact, theory and opinion with each other. So opinion becomes fact and fact becomes theory. You can see this wrong way of thinking in for example "intelligent design". Evolution becomes nothing more then theory and the creation of the universe by God becomes a fact instead of an opinion.
(You need data/evidence in order to create a theory, right?)
To elaborate on that further. One wrong assumption easily made is for example that life can only exist if liquid water is present. This assumption is made because this seems to be the case on Earth; forgetting other possibility's.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')“Can the intellectual, who is supposed to have a special and perhaps professional concern with truth, escape from or rise above the partiality and distortions of ideology?”
I should quote someone like Buddha right now, but can't find a nice one. To use my own words: You have to disconnect yourself from the world, in thought.
This does sound a bit weird so i try to use an example here. Compare it with computer programming. When you write a new program you start with an empty screen and nothing exist yet. Slowly, using logic and variables, you can then build a program. And everything in this program is reduced to logic and variables.
So, in order to rise above these distortions of ideology you have to start "clean" before you can attempt to discover the truth; reducing everything to logic and variables. It's a bit like math.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')An intellectual might be properly defined as those who are primarily or professionally concerned with matters of the mind and the imagination but who are socially non-attached.
"socially non-attached"
What do you mean by this?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Each intellectual is spouting a different ideology, how does the individual choose what ideology?
As an obsessive perfectionist it is not unusual for me to spend an hour writing and re-writing a single sentence. When abandoning perfection i ask you to judge me on my ideas, not on my words.
by coberst » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 07:12:41
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kakkerlak', 'P')ftt...many difficult words. *reads dictionary*
I always enjoy reading your posts.
(You need data/evidence in order to create a theory, right?)
I should quote someone like Buddha right now, but can't find a nice one. To use my own words: You have to disconnect yourself from the world, in thought.
This does sound a bit weird so i try to use an example here. Compare it with computer programming. When you write a new program you start with an empty screen and nothing exist yet. Slowly, using logic and variables, you can then build a program.
So, in order to rise above these distortions of ideology you have to start "clean" before you can attempt to discover the truth; reducing everything to logic and variables. It's a bit like math.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')An intellectual might be properly defined as those who are primarily or professionally concerned with matters of the mind and the imagination but who are socially non-attached.
"socially non-attached"
What do you mean by this?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Each intellectual is spouting a different ideology, how does the individual choose what ideology?
This is fascinating; Which ideology is correct, if there is one correct ideology? And this will lead to questions like; is there an absolute truth or is it relative? And at this point opinions kick in.

*hoping to exchange more thoughts*
Have fun!
Roach
I would say that a theory is an hypothesis that has received a lot of expert attention.
I do not want to argue with Buddha but one can as easily step out of his or her skin as to disconnect him or her self from the world. Nor does even a software engineer start with a blank slate.
We bring our whole past with us when we think about anything. The best hat we can do is to recognize this fact and to constantly try to update the past as well as we can.
We are all filled with various ideologies and the more we try to examine these ideologies the more likely we are to make good judgments.
Critical Thinking: Art and science of good judgment
The first step toward solving our problems is to learn CT (Critical Thinking).
CT is an acronym for Critical Thinking. Everybody considers themselves to be a critical thinker. That is why we need to differentiate among different levels of critical thinking.
Most people fall in the category that I call Reagan thinkers—trust but verify. Then there are those who have taken the basic college course taught by the philosophy dept that I call Logic 101. This is a credit course that teaches the basic principles of reasoning. Of course, a person need not take the college course and can learn the matter on their own effort, but I suspect few do that.
The third level I call CT (Critical Thinking). CT includes the knowledge of Logic 101 and also the knowledge that focuses upon the intellectual character and attitude of critical thinking. It includes knowledge regarding the ego and social centric forces that impede rational thinking.
Most decisions we have to make are judgment calls. A judgment call is made when we must make a decision when there is no “true” or “false” answers. When we make a judgment call our decision is bad, good, or better.
Many factors are involved: there are the available facts, assumptions, skills, knowledge, and especially personal experience and attitude. I think that the two most important elements in the mix are personal experience and attitude.
When we study math we learn how to use various algorithms to facilitate our skill in dealing with quantities. If we never studied math we could deal with quantity on a primary level but our quantifying ability would be minimal. Likewise with making judgments; if we study the art and science of good judgment we can make better decisions and if we never study the art and science of judgment our decision ability will remain minimal.
I am convinced that a fundamental problem we have in this country (USA) is that our citizens have never learned the art and science of good judgment. Before the recent introduction of CT into our schools and colleges our young people have been taught primarily what to think and not how to think. All of us graduated with insufficient comprehension of the knowledge, skills, and attitude necessary for the formulation of good judgment. The result of this inability to make good judgment is evident and is dangerous.
I am primarily interested in the judgment that adults exercise in regard to public issues. Of course, any improvement in judgment generally will affect both personal and community matters.
To put the matter into a nut shell:
1. Normal men and women can significantly improve their ability to make judgments.
2. CT is the domain of knowledge that delineates the knowledge, skills, and intellectual character demanded for good judgment.
3. CT has been introduced into our schools and colleges slowly in the last two or three decades.
4. Few of today’s adults were ever taught CT.
5. I suspect that at least another two generations will pass before our society reaps significant rewards resulting from teaching CT to our children.
6. Can our democracy survive that long?
7. I think that every effort must be made to convince today’s adults that they need to study and learn CT on their own. I am not suggesting that adults find a teacher but I am suggesting that adults become self-actualizing learners.
8. I am convinced that learning the art and science of Critical Thinking is an important step toward becoming a better citizen in today’s democratic society.
Questions for discussion//
Have you ever had a course in Critical Thinking in any educational institution?
Have your children ever had a course in Critical Thinking in any educational institution?
Perhaps you are not familiar with CT. I first encountered the concept about five years ago. The following are a few Internet sites that will familiarize you with the matter.
http://www.freeinquiry.com/critical-notes.html
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:mk ... clnk&cd=11
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/inquiry/f ... inste.html
http://www.criticalthinking.org/resourc ... sary.shtml
http://www.doit.gmu.edu/inventio/past/d ... sID=eslava
by kakkerlak » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 09:24:56
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I do not want to argue with Buddha but one can as easily step out of his or her skin as to disconnect him or her self from the world. Nor does even a software engineer start with a blank slate.
We bring our whole past with us when we think about anything. The best hat we can do is to recognize this fact and to constantly try to update the past as well as we can.
Yes, i didn't try to say that Buddha has all the answers. A quote would just sounds pretty.
The computer programming analogy isn't that bad, i think. After all, without knowledge about the programming language you can't write programs. And even knowing the language doesn't guarantee a good program. So, this knowledge can be compared to the past, experiences and all other stuff you need in order to make sense of the world.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I am convinced that a fundamental problem we have in this country (USA) is that our citizens have never learned the art and science of good judgment. Before the recent introduction of CT into our schools and colleges our young people have been taught primarily what to think and not how to think. All of us graduated with insufficient comprehension of the knowledge, skills, and attitude necessary for the formulation of good judgment. The result of this inability to make good judgment is evident and is dangerous.
Not only in the USA.
Do you really have "critical thinking" in schools? Wow!
As you said; we learn what to think and not how to think.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Have you ever had a course in Critical Thinking in any educational institution?
Never finished any school, course or education. I discovered that i can learn everything, given enough motivation and time behind a computer.
I still like to describe myself as a critical thinker but as you said; everybody considers him/her self critical. There is an un-written rule in the "hacker world" saying that only another hacker can decide if you're a hacker (not to be confused with "cracker").
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Google Search', '[')b]Define:hacker
A slang term for a computer enthusiast. Among professional programmers, the term hacker implies an amateur or a programmer who lacks formal training. Depending on how it is used, the term can be either complimentary or derogatory, although it is developing an increasingly derogatory connotation.
...
Originally used to describe a computer enthusiast who pushed a system to its highest performance through clever programming.
...
Originally, a hacker was a term of respect, used among computer programmers, designers, and engineers. The hacker was one who created original and ingenious programs.
As an obsessive perfectionist it is not unusual for me to spend an hour writing and re-writing a single sentence. When abandoning perfection i ask you to judge me on my ideas, not on my words.