Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

"Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

"Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby paimei01 » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 04:28:25

I have just read this book and I feel "enlightened" :)
My way of thinking was similar to what I found in the book, but Daniel Quinn knows how to explain it, so now I can see better, and formulate myself better

The book says that we are all enacting a story, and if we would stop if we would be given a different one to enact.
For this to happen we must be awake, most of us are not, and the ones who sleep are angry at anything that may wake them up. Or afraid of it. Like a drug addict
German people when Hitler rose to power, they were enacting their story.

Our myths tell us that this world was made for us to conquer and rule, and that is the story we are enacting. Belief in God or not, we do agree that we rule the world and it does not matter if all other species die, our survival is what matters


A quote :
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut what would be the result? He would become a criminal, an outlaw, a thief of life, and a murderer of the creatures around him. Without the delusion that what he was doing was good—and therefore to be done at any cost—he would soon weary of the outlaw’s life. Indeed this is bound to happen during his quest for the Tree of Life. But if he should eat of the tree of our knowledge, then he will shrug off his weariness. He will say, ‘What does it matter that I’m weary of living as a murderer of all the life around me? I know good and evil, and this way of living is good. Therefore I must live this way even though I’m weary unto death, even though I destroy the world and even myself. The gods wrote in the world a law for all to follow, but it cannot apply to me because I’m their equal. Therefore I will live outside this law and grow without limit. To be limited is evil. I will steal the fire of life from the hands of the gods and heap it up for my growth, and that will be good. I will destroy those kinds that do not serve my growth, and that will be good. I will wrest the garden from the hands of the gods and order it anew so that it serves only my growth, and that will be good. And because these things are good, they must be done at any cost. It may be that I’ll destroy the garden and make a ruin of it. It may be that my progeny will teem over the earth like locusts, stripping it bare, until they drown in their own filth and hate the very sight of one another and go mad. Still they must go on, because to grow without limit is good and to accept the limits of the law is evil. And if any say, “Let’s put off the burdens of the criminal life and live in the hands of the gods once again,” I will kill them, for what they say is evil. And if any say, “Let’s turn aside from our misery and search for that other tree,” I will kill them, for what they say is evil. And when at last all the garden has been subjugated to my use and all kinds that do not serve my growth have been cast aside and all the fire of life in the world flows through my progeny, still I must grow. And to the people of this land I will say, “Grow, for this is good,” and they will grow. And to the people of the next land I will say, “Grow, for this is good,” and they will grow. And when they can grow no more, the people of this land will fall upon the people of the next to murder them, so that they may grow still more. And if the groans of my progeny fill the air throughout the world, I will say to them, “Your sufferings must be borne, for you suffer in the cause of good. See how great we have become! Wielding the knowledge of good and evil, we have made ourselves the masters of the world, and the gods have no power over us. Though your groans fill the air, isn’t it sweeter to live in our own hands than in the hands of the gods?
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/
One day there will be so many houses, that people will be bored and will go live in tents. "Why are you living in tents ? Are there not enough homes ?" "Yes there are, but we play this Economy game". Now it's "Crisis" time !Too many houses! Yes, we are insane!
paimei01
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue 27 Feb 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Romania

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby Novus » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 04:53:35

I read this book some time ago. It definitely helped me to free my mind from 'mother culture.'
User avatar
Novus
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2450
Joined: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 03:00:00

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby errorist » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 05:44:18

Good book.
User avatar
errorist
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed 28 May 2008, 03:00:00

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby biofuel13 » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 14:45:38

Great book it's my all-time favorite. I've read it nearly a dozen times and my original copy has been passed around and read by almost 50 people now. Read it and pass it on to those around you!
User avatar
biofuel13
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed 07 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Chaska, MN

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby biofuel13 » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 14:52:58

paimei01--

Another great book that will help everyone cope with the coming collapse is "Beyond Civilization" also by Daniel Quinn. It promotes living a tribal lifestyle in which community members all work towards common goals. I highly recommend it and all of Quinn's books.
User avatar
biofuel13
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed 07 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Chaska, MN

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 14:59:31

He has many interesting essays, as well as questions and answers on his website:

http://www.ishmael.org/Education/Writings/index.shtml


http://www.ishmael.org/Interaction/QandA/qanda.cfm
Ludi
 

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby BigTex » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 16:01:47

How about this for a coincidence: I bought Ishmael at a bookstore last night.

It's a popular title around here, but the timing of this post and my purchase of the book feels pretty odd.

Obviously, I look forward to reading it.
:)
User avatar
BigTex
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3858
Joined: Thu 03 Aug 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Graceland

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 16:04:40

I prefer "The Story of B" myself. :)
Ludi
 

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby Schadenfreude » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 16:35:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('paimei01', 'I') have just read this book and I feel "enlightened" :)


I read Ishmael way back in 1999, I think it was. I recall Quinn spent a few pages providing an entirely new interpretation of biblical Genesis and the parable of the Garden of Eden.

Now I can't remember it. Bur I remember feeling enlightened also when I read it. Perhaps I'll refresh my memory at the library.
Schadenfreude
 

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 16:37:32

Some people seem to find reading the book an earth-shattering, life-changing experience; other people, it leaves them cold.


I was kind of neutral about it. "Hmm, ok."


:)
Ludi
 

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby biofuel13 » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 16:47:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'H')ow about this for a coincidence: I bought Ishmael at a bookstore last night.

It's a popular title around here, but the timing of this post and my purchase of the book feels pretty odd.

Obviously, I look forward to reading it.


Enjoy the read....and maybe start a thread to discuss the points in the book you find interesting.
User avatar
biofuel13
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed 07 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Chaska, MN

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby BigTex » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 18:15:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'S')ome people seem to find reading the book an earth-shattering, life-changing experience; other people, it leaves them cold.


I was kind of neutral about it. "Hmm, ok."


:)


Ludi, what was the last earth shattering life changing experience you had?
:)
User avatar
BigTex
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3858
Joined: Thu 03 Aug 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Graceland

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby TheTurtle » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 18:18:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') prefer "The Story of B" myself. :)


I do also. Of the three books that tell essentially the same story, I like "The Story of B" and then "My Ishmael" and lastly "Ishmael".
“Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
User avatar
TheTurtle
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Sat 14 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
Top

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 18:25:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')
Ludi, what was the last earth shattering life changing experience you had?


That's a really personal question.

I'm not sure I want to talk about it right now. Hope that's ok. :)
Ludi
 
Top

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby BigTex » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 18:40:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')
Ludi, what was the last earth shattering life changing experience you had?


That's a really personal question.

I'm not sure I want to talk about it right now. Hope that's ok. :)


Of course it's okay.

No problem.

[BigTex's mind wanders off in countless speculations regarding Ludi's experiences.]
:)
User avatar
BigTex
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3858
Joined: Thu 03 Aug 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Graceland
Top

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 18:49:58

:) BigTex


Folks who like Daniel Quinn's stuff may also like

http://anthropik.com/

which I've been linking to a lot lately.
Ludi
 

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby Novus » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 18:56:59

The best thing I have taken from Daniel Quinn are the Ten Laws of Nature. Those are the true ten commandments not that bible thumper crap. Those Ten Laws of Nature were set long before humans existed and will stand long after the human race is extinct.
User avatar
Novus
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2450
Joined: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 03:00:00

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby btu2012 » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 21:12:25

Do not steal, do not murder, do not commit adultery...

Yeah man, total crap. Be proud of being so enlightened.
only the paranoid survive
User avatar
btu2012
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1802
Joined: Mon 24 Sep 2007, 03:00:00
Location: third from the sun

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby btu2012 » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 21:13:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('paimei01', 'T')he book says that we are all enacting a story


And what story is Quinn enacting ? That of Guru of tribalism ?

Ever wonder why he seems to like having a following of adulating fans ?

Ever wonder why he twists anthropological data out of any semblance with reality ?

Ever wonder why he has nothing practicable to recommend, except for vaguely advocating that we let others starve in far off lands ?

Did you ever consider how many billions will have to die in order for the few remaining millions to subsist as neo-tribalists ?

But I forgot, murder is one those false "sins" of the crappy ten commandments.
Last edited by btu2012 on Wed 11 Jun 2008, 21:32:14, edited 7 times in total.
only the paranoid survive
User avatar
btu2012
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1802
Joined: Mon 24 Sep 2007, 03:00:00
Location: third from the sun
Top

Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn

Unread postby btu2012 » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 21:15:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schadenfreude', 'I') recall Quinn spent a few pages providing an entirely new interpretation of biblical Genesis and the parable of the Garden of Eden.


Neither new nor original. This interpretation goes back centuries, and has been common in academic studies of Genesis at least since the early 1800s (conflict between pastoralists and civilization etc).
only the paranoid survive
User avatar
btu2012
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1802
Joined: Mon 24 Sep 2007, 03:00:00
Location: third from the sun
Top

Next

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron