[BigTex]

I've always wanted to see one, but haven't.

If you've been to one, how was it?

Did you like it?

[blukatzen]

Yes, Tex, I was to one when I went to Spain back in 1979. I was vacationing with my parents and my mom's Spanish class (she went back to college, I was at University at the time).

We were in the South of Spain, and we were there for the annual Eastertime trip to Spain, like many college classes do. On a Sunday, most of us decided to go to the bullfights. We went to one in Malaga, a ways off from where we stayed on the "Spanish Riviera". It was your typical tourist stuff..

I did not like it at all. I saw one bull who clearly had no interest in fighting, and had to be prodded to fight. The bull was booed mercilessly. He was probably in a very scared mood, and just wanted out of the ring. I also felt very scared for the horses, and even though they are trained for this "sport", it happens that they do get injured or gored.

I thought as well, "what a waste of good beef flesh" as I had heard that the flesh was not good for eating as there was so much adrenaline pumped through the flesh of the animal as it was fighting to live whilst being gored, that it was unhealthy to eat. I had also then heard later on, that the beef was cut up and given to the poor to eat. Ah, such "charity"....

It was a spectacle that though based in history, bears wishing it would....die out. I know that Spanish based animal rights groups have done a large part on getting some of them abolished. It was cruel and barbaric, and needless. But I know some Spaniard or Mexican, or other Hispanic onboard will say I am dissing their culture. No, I am unhappy with that "Sport" and hope that enlightenment happens, much like it has with zoos and circus animals, and their unhappy plight.

Time to just....go gentle..enough with killing. Nature does enough of that on her own.

Blu

[BigTex]

I've always thought that the American custom of insane cowboys attempting to ride bulls rather than kill them was more sporting, though still not very kind to the bull.

At least the bull has a shot at the rider in bullriding.

Plus, a good bull will get many rides.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('blukatzen', '
')
I did not like it at all. I saw one bull who clearly had no interest in fighting, and had to be prodded to fight. The bull was booed mercilessly.

cruel and barbaric, and needless.

Blu

[mercurygirl]

Cruel, barbaric, and needless. Kinda sums up human history, eh?

[Volcanic21]

A few years ago I went to a bullfight in Spain after running with the bulls in Pamplona. The running part was crazy fun, but all I remember of the bullfight is that it was soooooooooooo boooooooooooooring. I think we left halfway through and went to a park to drink boxed wine.

[startswithearthquakes]

Just visit the gas pumps in due time .. or the grocery store ..

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Volcanic21', ' ')I think we left halfway through and went to a park to drink boxed wine.

[virgincrude]

blukatzen, I sympathise with your reaction, it's pretty normal for a lot of people. The average bullfight involves a lot of blood, and you're right, a lot of people would argue with you about their 'heritage' and 'culture' to defend the tradition. It's important to know that bullfighting is not appreciated throughout the nation. It is originally an Andaluz invention (from southern Spain, the same place where Flamenco music and dance was born, and to which it has many strong ties.)

I am Spanish, but I am ambivalent about the corrida- I do not think it should be banned, but I see no reason why the Portuguese style where the bull does not get ritually killed at the end, can't be adopted.

Bullfighting is not a sport, that's a common mistake made by detractors. It is a culture. I don't know how I would feel at your average rodeo, or even one of those NASCA style car races. Every culture has its own views on their favourite or 'national' art. You would have to spend a long time immersed in Spanish culture to get a handle on the bullfight scene. Detractors always cry defence for the poor animal, while supporters explain the good life these animals get prior to their last stand. The bull is a unique breed, genetically manipulated for centuries to get the shoulder heavy, wide horned fighting bull, who regularly kills the odd trespasser on land. These beasts really are dangerous in their own habitat: acres of prime pasture lands with rolling Spanish oaks for shade and plenty of frisky heffers to secure the stud line.

As for eating the meat, there are dedicated butchers in just about every town (at least in the South) who specialise purely in fighting bull beef, during the season. The tail makes a particularly hearty stew: Rabo de Toro. The amount of money produced by and for bullfighting must account for a pretty large sum of Spain's GDP. The animals require vast farmland, they are strictly controlled by specialised vets, the men and women who raise them are usually from generations of fighting bull breeders, these are the seriously rich with private jets and easy access to political power. The stables which always accompany fighting bull breeders are also important generators of income. The bulls' are 'run' almost every day, by men and women on horse back, with long spiked poles in case a bull should take a disliking, across miles and miles of land: they are fit beasts by the time they get chosen for the ring.

The bullfighters themselves, if they become 'figuras' earn millions of euros. Like any culture, it takes more than just skill or artistry to get to the top: family connections and wise management decisions (where to fight, which bulls from which stud to take on) to forge ahead. Young fighters will attend a specialised training school, and often get their first taste of the corrida in South America, where under age young boys can be legally exposed to the risk. usually, a bullfighter trains with young heffers of the bull fighting breed, these are nasty bitches, and their sons are even nastier.

The matador really does face death in the ring. Although the bull is seriously mistreated before he gets up close: the heavy, padded horses are used for the 'rejoneador' to poke a deep wound in the bulls shoulders to cause bleeding and thus weakening it. So there's a lot of blood around from the start, especially if this guy manages to find a large vein. The matador then has a chance to literally 'dance with death'. The fighting bull is still sufficiently strong to gorge him and this happens often. Recently a matador received a 20 cm gorge right in the anus, with tearing of the sphincter. Oh my. But it is now rare for a matador to die as a consequence of a bull's horn.

There is an entire surgical industry around bullfighting, they held their annual conference recently with surgeons attending from France, Mexico and other areas of Latin America where bull fighting is also popular. The wound from a bull's horn in unique, the opening can be less than a centimeter in diameter, but after that, you can't tell the trajectory of the horn, which are about 20 or 30 centimeters long. (There's always rumour of horn 'clipping' which effectively blunts a particularly unpredictable bull's lethal charge, this procedure is illegal.) They rip muscle, tendon and organs on the way in, and out. The last bullfighter to die was Paquirri back in the late 1970's. He had two sons from a first marriage, one of whom became a 'figura' like his father but the other brother showed no interest at all until three years ago, after a failed marriage and a baby daughter. He is now one of the major bullfighters on the scene.

What makes a 'figura'? This is particularly hard to explain to people outside the culture, reading Hemingway will do it better than me. Suffice to say, and to quote some of the comments from a recent fight by Jose Tomas in Madrid: the matador who can transport the public by his 'union' with the bull, a man who stands statuesque while nearly 600 kilos of charging bull aims for the cape in his hand, brushing against him as it passes, once, twice, three times before the guy makes a move out of the way. When closing in for the kill, the bull must lunge forward while the matador aims the sword for a vital position between the vertebrae which will hopefully take it directly to the heart. The most dangerous moment in any fight. Even as exhausted as the bull is at this stage, it will often lunge unpredictably and catch the matador with a horn, tossing him like a sack of potatoes up and over its shoulders, he then frequently gets trampled.

Like everything, there are good and bad bullfights. There are a lot of different bull 'personalities', sometimes the 'president' of a bullfight will judge a bull too docile to fight and order him off. Sometimes, very rarely, a bull is deemed so noble he will receive a reprieve and then has to be cleaned up and cared for after sustaining some seriously life threatening damage. All bulls are given a name, those responsible for killing or seriously wounding bullfighters in the past, are granted a special place in the bullfighting gallery, their mounted heads given pride of place somewhere.

A bullfight should be contemplated with all this fore-knowledge and more, if you want to make a judgement. Personally, I think it is far more important for humanity as a whole, to ban wars first, and then see what to do about bullfighting.

[grampybone]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mercurygirl', 'C')ruel, barbaric, and needless. Kinda sums up human history, eh?

[patience]

Never been close that kind of bullfight, but was unwillingly involved in two encounters with bulls, that left a lasting impression. Normally farmers are careful to keep their bulls separated by a large field, but once someone forgot and our bull fought the neighbor's, with a fence between them. The wire held, but the posts and staples did not, stretching as much as 20 feet away from the posts. It fell to me to try to get them apart, atop the farm tractor. I had little effect. They fought until they were both exhausted, and bleeding from the head and nose. The thunderous crack they made upon head to head impact, I'll never forget. It's hard to imagine that creatures do this of their own volition.

Years later, I was in a confrontation with an escaped bull. All efforts to corral him failed. He was a threat to the community, and was finally "caught" with a high powered rifle, after trying to attack several of his pursuers, me among them.

At that point I lost interest in rodeos and bullfights for good. Now, I can't think of a good reason to purposely get in the way of one of those guys.

[AlCzervik]

Went to one while on foreign study and all of the girls in our group flipped out and were bawling like crazy. I have to say, one of the matador/toreador or whatever you call them dudes did a horrible job and was butchering the damn bull, but didn't cleanly kill it. I seem to remember they had to bring in some other guys to finish the job.