[gowgow2]

Ok, so we have a big decision to make and I'd like some advice.

We have a work at home business with fairly significant storage needs (we manufacture and sell a product), and it is taking over a significant portion of our 2700 sq/ft house. We'll be soon be buying a 2nd home business that will have even larger storage needs. We could of course rent a warehouse, but that could easily cost $2000-$3000/month and we'd very much like to continue to work from home.

In order to run both of these businesses from home, we'll definitely need a 3-4 car garage, and perhaps a 1700-2000 sq/ft open basement. The homes with these attributes in the area we're moving to are 5500-7000 sq/ft McMansions in the suburbs 15-25 miles from the city center.
I've been aware of the peak oil idea for a couple years and I'm convinced that serious problems are coming. I've read some of the books, watched "the end of suburbia" and several other documentaries on the subject. On the one hand, buying a huge house in the suburbs seems like a terrible idea, but honestly it's the best idea I've been able to come up with.

Everyone has their own ideas for the best ways to prepare for peak oil. Some have already bought a plot of land and are preparing by stocking up on supplies, starting a garden, planting fruit trees, and living a simpler life. Like many of these people, I have a family I'm trying to provide for. I suppose my approach to preparing is the polar opposite of those who have moved to the country to raise chicken and grow they own food. My approach is to try to earn every last damn cent I can before TSHTF. Who's with me???

We would never in a million years buy one of these ridiculous homes under normal circumstances. We don't give a rats ass about status, or keeping up with the joneses or any of that nonsense. Really, truly. But between these 2 businesses, they might (at least for awhile at least) take in $60,000-$70,000 revenue each month (and perhaps $14,000/month profit). My wife will run the businesses (with hired help), and I'll hopefully will be getting another job outside the home where I hope to earn another 80k/yr. I mention the numbers not to brag, but rather to emphasize that it's potentially a good opportunity that could work out well for us as long as the economy keeps chugging along.

Can you understand our dilemna? I'm sure that many of you would argue that buying such a home is a extraordinarily bad idea, especially now with the price of gas where it is and the grim headlines we've been seeing lately. But put yourself in my shoes. If the money is pouring in (relatively speaking) why shouldn't we buy the home and enjoy the jetted tub and granite counter-tops as long as we're able to? I suppose some here would brand us as capitalist pigs, "part of the problem", and I'll admit that our petroleum and carbon footprints will certainly be going up. But on the other hand, my wife at least will be working at home which is pretty "green", and we'll actually be manufacturing a product in the U.S. which is rare these days and something this country will need more of in the future.

I'd love to hear your thoughts because I'm struggling to know what to do. I suppose I could end up as one of those poor saps Kunstler speaks about with a home too far from the city that no one wants to buy and is too expensive to heat etc, etc. But if the economic meltdown/doomsday scenarios arrive in full effect, then I think most of us are pretty well f*cked no matter how we've tried to prepare. My thinking is that major energy problems will be relentless and almost certainly neverending, but will also be gradual and will happen slowly over time. As long as the economy is still somewhat in tact, hopefully I can continue to earn a buck and will have some time to build up various kinds of assets that will have at least some kind of value. When things truly unravel, I'd like to think I'll have some time to change gears and make whatever move is needed in order to do what is best for my family.

If you think the big home is a bad idea, do you have any better alternatives to suggest? Thanks in advance

[threadbear]

Why don't you buy 2 older smaller better built bungalows. Live in one and work in the other. I'd be renting the warehouse, if I were you, but if that's unacceptable to you, you might try this option.

[Dreamtwister]

RE: Storage space

Those modular steel buildings are a fantastic way to increase your storage space quickly. The catch is, you need some square footage on which to erect them.

I think it was Roy Rogers who said "Buy land, because God isn't making any more of it." Now, I'm not a particularly religious person, but the advice seems sound enough. Owning more land is rarely a bad thing.

[gowgow2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'R')E: Storage space
Those modular steel buildings are a fantastic way to increase your storage space quickly. The catch is, you need some square footage on which to erect them.

[Dreamtwister]

In that case, maybe you could consider an older, disused warehouse or factory? Many downtown cores have them, and everyone seems to be converting them into mixed-use residential nowadays anyway...

Price might be a factor though, they are very popular with condo developers.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gowgow2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'R')E: Storage space
Those modular steel buildings are a fantastic way to increase your storage space quickly. The catch is, you need some square footage on which to erect them.

[jlw61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gowgow2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'R')E: Storage space
Those modular steel buildings are a fantastic way to increase your storage space quickly. The catch is, you need some square footage on which to erect them.

[Ainan]

I would take the 'survivalists' approach gowgow2. Buy the McMansion, but save as much money as you can. Then buy a cheap piece of land in a very rural location. Always make sure you have enough fuel to get there and back on hand in your 'bug-out' vehicle.

If you can no longer afford to keep the McMansion then you still have somewhere to go and if its no longer safe to live in the McMansion then 'bugging out' is a good idea. The world won't be collapsing today, tomorrow, next week or even next year so don't rush into anything.

[skyemoor]

You mentioned that you would need to expand given a thriving economy. At this point, it looks like the economy is not expanding, and may be starting to contract. Do you have a business outlook plan? Would you need more space in a stagnant economy? If not, you have an option to remain where you are. You could also split one of the businesses into a warehouse district.

Do you have to be in the city you currently reside in or is your business primarily mail order? If the latter, consider cities and areas that would do well (or at least not poorly) as peak oil progresses. Any area highly dependent on petroleum will have a hard economic time when the full effects of PO hit. Read "Major US City Preparedness for Oil Crisis".

[pup55]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')an you understand our dilemna

[joelchicago]

I have purchased property further in the country to do something similar. Prices in my area are literally over 10X what I paid for the place (which is about 9000 sq ft). I drive an hour right now to get there (in my little Honda or on my cycle), but as the business grow, I have the option to move there and live very very cheaply.

Relocation a short ways outside the ex-urbs can help too, because if things do continue to ramp up for a while, the property values will only rise, and you can usually find a farm-ette or something like that, which nearly always comes with some kind of Morton building, usually 40x60 or bigger, which is really good for warehousing. And you're only another 3-5 miles from where you are looking now.

Just some more thoughts for you. Oh, by the way, my 2700 sq ft house (which is bigger than I should have bought) is 35 miles from the city center here in Chicago, and I'm nowhere near the fringe - the burbs just keep going and going and going.... That's what forced me to go rural (which, since it came with good land, is starting to look like a good decision).

[Heineken]

The future will be about contraction, not expansion.

[Ludi]

My advice as a business owner is -
Do not go into debt to expand your business!

My business has never been in debt and will never be in debt, to the chagrin of my bank. They don't understand the concept of operating a business in the black.

I also work at home - in the house and in a small shop building. We recently built a small storage building.

[dinopello]

If you live in SoCal, you could get one of these deals
Buy one McMansion, get another free !
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n a sign of how difficult it is to sell new homes in Southern California right now, a San Diego developer is offering a "buy one, get one free" deal, pairing million-dollar homes with less expensive homes.
"We thought, 'Why does it just have to be on Pop Tarts and restaurants? Why not buy one home, get one free,'" Dawn Berry of Michael Crews Development told 10 News in San Diego.

[Ferretlover]

I am no economic wiz, but there are others here who are-maybe they'll point out the pros & cons in my post for you.
If it were me:
Have your business buy a small farm on the outskirts of the city. One with a barn and/or outbuildings.
You could plants food trees and start a garden, etc., while providing space for your products.
You did not mention the product(s) you were selling. Are they going to be useful (basic needs) for the future? If not, don't get stuck with a lot of inventory-unless it is something you can trade or barter when TSHTF.
Those McMansions are going to make Very Good targets for the future zombie hordes! Not to mention, heating them. And, your employees-all it is going to take is one, who gets hit especially hard who then mentions to the wrong person, they know where they can get all kinds of stuff. As the economy goes down, you'd be stuck with the taxes, too. McMansion=Bad, BAD idea.

[Heineken]

I would pull in my horns, not expand. Consolidate. Strengthen what's strong about your business, minimize what's weak, and above all don't take on further risk (including the maintenance-cost risk posed by a McMansion).

[dunewalker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gowgow2', 'O')k, so we have a big decision to make and I'd like some advice...
I've been aware of the peak oil idea for a couple years and I'm convinced that serious problems are coming. I've read some of the books...
I'd love to hear your thoughts because I'm struggling to know what to do... When things truly unravel, I'd like to think I'll have some time to change gears and make whatever move is needed in order to do what is best for my family.

[Mack12345]

Buying the McMansion will be a HUGE mistake imo . Do whatever you have to do to avoid it .

[gowgow2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'Y')ou mentioned that you would need to expand given a thriving economy. At this point, it looks like the economy is not expanding, and may be starting to contract. Do you have a business outlook plan? He says he 'manufactures' something in a 2700 sq. ft. suburban home. Doubt it. He probably 'assembles' something. Gold-lame hot-tub filter gaskets ? Downspout mittens (replete with gambling shar pei's) made from recycled Coke-bottles? Green patches for unsightly brown weed-holes in the lawn? Green fuel containers in that say "biodiesel?" (His 'assembly' is sticking the green label on them). Hot-Pepper Jelly? Crap no one will want very soon?