[Leanan]

Read this article today:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5353901/

It's about how economic pressures have made it difficult for many Americans to get food. Not because they can't afford it; because there are no grocery stores near where they live. Wal-Mart and similar stores are built in the suburbs, where there's both space and customers. It's killed off the small, mom and pop grocers that used to supply small towns and the inner city.

We've really become a lot more dependent on oil, just in the past couple of decades.

[CarlinsDarlin]

boy boy boy is this a scary statement coming from an "educated " person...

Quote from the article:
"But for most working families and the elderly, few of whom have experience growing and storing food, farming isn’t practical, said Thomas Lyson, a sociologist at Cornell University who studies food deserts.

“Even farmers tend not to grow their own food,” he said. “What are you going to do, have a cow so you can milk it 12 months a year? We’re not asking to become peasants again.”

And this (below) is pure bunk:
"Wal-Mart spokeswoman Daphne Moore says her company, which has 1,500 supercenters nationally, has a history of catering to underserved regions and is looking to build more urban stores to help with grocery access in those areas."

Just this week, the local Wally World claimed another victim in my town. A small grocery closed - number 5 that I can think of off the top of my head - and that's just the local groceries. Not to mention the pharmacies, fabric stores, jewelers, bike shops, gas stations (supercenter has gas pumps out front now), and so many other businesses. People really don't understand that a place like Wal-Mart actually sucks money out of the local economy. Their PR folks talk about the jobs they create and the charitable donations they make... well, I have news. They don't pay their employees much at all, and I guarantee you, if they weren't making a profit, they wouldn't be in your town. The money that is spent there by local folks, gets sent ouf of town, and in most cases out of state. It's just a drain.... very sad. And unfortunately, more and more will be in the position that it's the only place they can shop.

Personally, unless I cannot find the item I need anywhere else, I will not step foot in a Wal-Mart or other large chain store. I'd much rather support my local mom and pop stores. After all, when times get tough, you're more likely to get help in return from those folks. You think Wal-Mart is going to care? Nope. When they're not making enough of a profit in your town, they'll close. Then what happens to the people in those small towns? They've lost their jobs, they're left with no alternatives for shopping, and everything else is closed.

It's gonna be scary, folks.
Kathy

[MadScientist]

nice rant Kathy

This is a big part of the reason Im committed to a rural area with a strong (or at least potentially strong) food production base.

Even so, it takes an awful long time for someone to starve. Maybe 300 miles still isnt far enough :\

Time for marksmanship training..

[CarlinsDarlin]

Why thank you, Mad Scientist. Everyone needs a good rant now and then It just struck a nerve, considering the closure in my hometown. And I used to shop there
Kathy

[k_semler]

Corporatism has also taken its hold in this area also. I renember just 3 years ago, the last store in 15 miles closed. That store had a post office in it, and was in operation since the founding of the town at the beginning of the the 1890's. Now, just to get a measly beer if I run out, I have to drive 14 miles to get one. The same situation exists with gas, and any other consumable good. Now, the only businuss in town is a cabnit maker, and a bank. There are rumors floating around that the bank may soon be replaced with just an ATM due to lack of businuss. There was a coffee stand that was open for about a year and a half, but that also closed due to lack of businuss. Now the only thing in town is that cabninit maker, and the grange. The Iron Horse Tavern was burnt to the ground 5 years back for a fire department practice drill. Now, Colton is only houses, and a school. Corpratism has completly destroyed rural america, so I guess Peak Oil will be good if it ends up revitalising rural areas to thier former glory.

[OilBurner]

Before we all start pointing the finger of blame at big chains, consider the fact that WalMart etc don't actually close local stores directly. The local stores close because they don't get enough customers anymore.
If people weren't so busy in their daily lives then they might have time to go visiting several local shops.
As it is, it's as much as most busy families can manage to just visit WalMart once or twice a week.
Also, people often chose the large chains because they can undercut local stores prices. If people value low cost over good local service then they can only blame themselves when they lose the local services.

i.e. don't blame WalMart, blame us, the consumer, our hectic lives and obessions with lowest prices

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')lso, people often chose the large chains because they can undercut local stores prices. If people value low cost over good local service then they can only blame themselves when they lose the local services.

i.e. don't blame WalMart, blame us, the consumer, our hectic lives and obessions with lowest prices

[OilBurner]

Is it arguable that globalization leading to lower wages wouldn't have happenend if people had stuck to local stores?
It's only through the relentless drive to lower costs that wages get lowered. Local stores only lower costs in an attempt to remain competitive with the chains.

What I'm thinking is, we've got ourselves to blame for getting into a viscious circle of lowering wages because of a demand for lowering costs. Can any economists make more sense of that for me?

[Pops]

I agree with both Kathy and OB.

Walmart just gave us what we wanted – cheap prices.

Now we’ve got a walmart economy where the lowest quality, the lowest service and the lowest wages wins. We no longer choose to go to walmart – we have to.

Oh well, if and when it becomes too expensive to ship all that crap from China, you’ll see the local cobbler hang his sign out again. Mom and Pop will be selling flour milled down the road, veggies from the next valley over and milk from Mr. Johnson’s dairy.

Walmart will be just a fond memory from the good old days.


It could happen, but then again I’m just a Luddite.

[JR]

I would love to be able to buy flour from a mill down the road....I guess there are some things to look forward to!




Jodi

[OilBurner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')Walmart will be just a fond memory from the good old days.

[OilBurner]

Whoops - there was a logical leap there! *mind the gap*

I meant to say, that losing the chains after a peak event will mean people will not be able to fit in shopping around their busy lifestyles and therefore the lifestyles will be forced to change to a more localised style of living.
Home working, old fashioned style jobs like bakers will be a new way of life.

Of course, people will be forced to remain quite local in a post-peak world anyway due to the costs of travelling being the same driver as the downfall of chains.

A win-win situation if you don't like the Wal-Mart world.

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')s it arguable that globalization leading to lower wages wouldn't have happenend if people had stuck to local stores?

[CarlinsDarlin]

JR,
We are very fortunate, at least, that there are still some small mom and pop businesses in the rural areas surrounding the town I spoke of - we live about 12 miles out of town ourselves. There IS a family that has a 1910 model milling machine about 6 miles from our home - they grind and sell fresh cornmeal on the roadside. Yum. I don't buy my cornmeal anywhere else. For that matter, I go out of my way to try to find local producers of many products I buy. Support the local economy, as it were. We may not be able to influence the throngs of Wally World addicts to do otherwise, but we can at least, individually, do our part to support the local businesses, and hope for the best.
Kathy

[k_semler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') agree with both Kathy and OB.

Walmart just gave us what we wanted – cheap prices.

Now we’ve got a walmart economy where the lowest quality, the lowest service and the lowest wages wins. We no longer choose to go to walmart – we have to.

[MadScientist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CarlinsDarlin', 'J')R,
We are very fortunate, at least, that there are still some small mom and pop businesses in the rural areas surrounding the town I spoke of - we live about 12 miles out of town ourselves. There IS a family that has a 1910 model milling machine about 6 miles from our home - they grind and sell fresh cornmeal on the roadside. Yum. I don't buy my cornmeal anywhere else. For that matter, I go out of my way to try to find local producers of many products I buy. Support the local economy, as it were. We may not be able to influence the throngs of Wally World addicts to do otherwise, but we can at least, individually, do our part to support the local businesses, and hope for the best.
Kathy