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Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby vetusfirma » Sun 01 Jun 2008, 19:04:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') would imagine that a 1984-style tyranny would entirely eliminate the possibility of a secessionist movement altogether, frankly.

Or make it inevitable. Such a society would require a lot of energy to control the population. Eventually, they would not be able to continue.
But when I say I expect the U.S. to dissolve, I don't necessarily mean a secessionist movement, like the Civil War.
Instead, it may simply reach the point where there's no benefit to maintaining the country as it is. Nobody formally signing articles of secession, nobody sending armies to stop it. Just a lot of people who are more concerned with local events than national or global.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')oes anyone see this trend in evidence? Really? Tell the truth, folks... aren't you vastly more aware of the presence of the federal government in your lives than you were ten, twenty years ago?

Can't say I've noticed much difference either way. Then again, I wasn't very interested in politics 20 years ago.
In any case, current trends are not necessarily an indication of the future. Peak oil is a game changer. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't bother hanging out here.
(FWIW, the Kunstler novel has a nuclear attack on DC, which is why no one is sure what happened to the federal government.)

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN HIDING. Nothing interesting enough for you in the last 20 years. What crap! PO will create stronger government, and while we will lose freedom, the bureaucrats will keep it all together. Its what they do. Nation that have a good bureaucracy have the means to endure.

20 years of not paying attention while the world goes to shit and we are suppose to listen NOW. Where were you when we really needed you. pfff..........
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby BigTex » Sun 01 Jun 2008, 19:06:43

Yeah, kind of like a Palestinian going into Jerusalem and saying "get off my land!"

(Oops, did I say that out loud?)
:)
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby BigTex » Sun 01 Jun 2008, 19:10:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vetusfirma', 'P')O will create stronger government, and while we will lose freedom, the bureaucrats will keep it all together. Its what they do. Nation that have a good bureaucracy have the means to endure.

I tend to think just the opposite--i.e., when a nation begins to get too focused on maintaining a large bureaucracy of non-productive people, it tends to signal decline.
:)
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby vetusfirma » Sun 01 Jun 2008, 19:17:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'Y')ou're saying that's a bad thing, right?

I think diversity is a better strategy for survival than putting all our cultural eggs in one basket.

1. Diversity is good, .45, .40, 5.56, so on and so forth.
2. Once I have it, its mine and you can't have it. If you don't like that, well, see 1
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 01 Jun 2008, 19:24:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vetusfirma', '1'). Diversity is good, .45, .40, 5.56, so on and so forth.
2. Once I have it, its mine any you can't have it. If you don't like that, well, see 1

Is that some kind of threat? :roll:
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby BigTex » Sun 01 Jun 2008, 19:29:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vetusfirma', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'Y')ou're saying that's a bad thing, right?

I think diversity is a better strategy for survival than putting all our cultural eggs in one basket.

1. Diversity is good, .45, .40, 5.56, so on and so forth.
2. Once I have it, its mine any you can't have it. If you don't like that, well, see 1

vetusfirma, would you please turn it down about one notch?

A little less cowbell.
:)
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby eastbay » Sun 01 Jun 2008, 19:41:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vetusfirma', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'Y')ou're saying that's a bad thing, right?

I think diversity is a better strategy for survival than putting all our cultural eggs in one basket.

1. Diversity is good, .45, .40, 5.56, so on and so forth.
2. Once I have it, its mine any you can't have it. If you don't like that, well, see 1

vetusfirma, would you please turn it down about one notch?
A little less cowbell.

Speaking of cows ... well, maybe lack of cows, maybe lack of almost everything ... what about cannibalism? Think we'll reach that point as America fractures?
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby BigTex » Sun 01 Jun 2008, 23:08:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vetusfirma', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'Y')ou're saying that's a bad thing, right?

I think diversity is a better strategy for survival than putting all our cultural eggs in one basket.

1. Diversity is good, .45, .40, 5.56, so on and so forth.
2. Once I have it, its mine any you can't have it. If you don't like that, well, see 1

vetusfirma, would you please turn it down about one notch?
A little less cowbell.

Speaking of cows ... well, maybe lack of cows, maybe lack of almost everything ... what about cannibalism? Think we'll reach that point as America fractures?
I predict a hybrid future in which there are still Sonic drive-ins, but there will be Soylent Green smoothies on the menu.
:)
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 02:54:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'S')peaking of cows ... well, maybe lack of cows, maybe lack of almost everything ... what about cannibalism? Think we'll reach that point as America fractures?

Do we really have to go there again?
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby Nickel » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 08:36:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'S')peaking of cows ... well, maybe lack of cows, maybe lack of almost everything ... what about cannibalism? Think we'll reach that point as America fractures?

Do we really have to go there again?

"Again"? ...Oh, the Donner Party, right. :)
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby Nickel » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 08:43:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') would imagine that a 1984-style tyranny would entirely eliminate the possibility of a secessionist movement altogether, frankly.

Or make it inevitable. Such a society would require a lot of energy to control the population. Eventually, they would not be able to continue.

Well, part of the point that Orwell was trying to make is that it really isn't that hard if you manage to alienate people from their fellows. If you never know who's a spy, and indeed pretty much everyone is, then they're doing the work for you. East Germany had a splendid totalitarian regime, and it endured right up to the moment the Wall came down. It's a lot harder to maintain or even organize a resistance if you don't trust anyone.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'I')nstead, it may simply reach the point where there's no benefit to maintaining the country as it is.

It's always going to be to the benefit of the people who control the government, and thus the army, though. I think civilization in general would have to collapse worldwide before people would become so focused on local survival that the US government would just fold up by attrition. That's not impossible, of course, but I personally don't see it as likely.
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby RedStateGreen » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 20:44:15

Second Vermont Republic

Lakota Nation

Then there's the well-known animosity between north and south California, people not-quite joke all the time that some day the two will split up.

I'm sure there's more, those are the ones I know about.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', '&')quot;Taste the sizzling fury of fajita skillet death you marauding zombie goon!"

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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby dunewalker » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 20:56:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedStateGreen', '[')url=http://www.vermontrepublic.org/]Second Vermont Republic[/url]
Lakota Nation
Then there's the well-known animosity between north and south California, people not-quite joke all the time that some day the two will split up.
I'm sure there's more, those are the ones I know about.

In my part of the world, there was/will be the state of Jefferson, temporarily scuttled by Pearl Harbor:
http://www.jeffersonstate.com/jeffersonstory.html
Our NPR connection is called Jefferson Public Radio (JPR)
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby heroineworshipper » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 21:53:57

US won't break up, but there is going to be a revolution. First a despot will be elected.
People first, then things, then dollars.
There will be enslavement, cannibalism, & zombie invasions.
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 04:43:55

I took a trip through Vermont and let me tell you, it is a beautiful state. It's amazing how low the population is there and how little infrastructure there is outside of the north. One thing I noticed is it was in late wintertime but the ice was melting early and people were mentioning to me how climate change was screwing things up.
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby toggie » Sun 08 Jun 2008, 12:08:14

Hi Folks - great website! I've been researching a bit lately about the "supposed" plans for a political reorganization of North America into the North American Union. There's a lot of info. out there about it but it doesn't seem to be mainstream knowledge. People who believe in this claim that the Council for Foreign Relations (David Rockefeller and other influential world players/bankers) already has a strategy in place for transitioning the population (physically and politically) into a new political entity with a new currency called the Amero. I just wondered what you folks have heard about this and what your thoughts are. I hope it's b.s., yet I,m aware that this has already happened to Europe. If Peak Oil results in a sudden drastic change to society- total economic shutdown, social unrest, entire populations having to relocate, and possibly (or even likely) martial law - I wonder if that might be the time we see a drastic change in our government as well...
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby Ferretlover » Sun 08 Jun 2008, 14:59:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('toggie', 'H')i Folks - great website! I've been researching a bit lately about the "supposed" plans for a political reorganization of North America into the North American Union. There's a lot of info. out there about it but it doesn't seem to be mainstream knowledge. ... I wonder if that might be the time we see a drastic change in our government as well...

Welcome to PO.com, toggie! Please step over to the 'Welcome' forum and share a bit about yourself.
Please spend some time reading in the various forums & their threads, and don't forget to browse the archives when you have a bit of time.
As for "the drastic change in our government," that's been underway for some years now. As you read here, you'll see just how much.
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby Ferretlover » Sun 08 Jun 2008, 15:01:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'I') predict a hybrid future in which there are still Sonic [s]drive-ins[/s] walk-ins, but there will be Soylent Green smoothies on the menu.

Fixed that for you, BT! :lol:
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby TheDude » Fri 27 Jun 2008, 11:34:41

What will happen if individual states begin to assert their sovereignty proactively? Texas already has ERCOT, what if they demand that gasoline exports be curbed? This could become an issue before hitting the MOL, I think, through legislative earmarks for citizenry. Before the TRC took control OK was demanding it receive its fair share of quota - the Iran to Texas's SA, sort of. And of course their legislature recently declared its 10th Amendment rights against the Fed.

Beats me what Oregon could bring to the table. Anybody trade a few barrels for some tasty filberts? :-D Oh yeah, we've got heaps of hydro. Now, how would you hoard that?
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Re: Why the feeling that the U.S. will break up in future?

Unread postby catbox » Fri 27 Jun 2008, 11:47:34

Next to Carlin, I love the comedy of Eddie Izzard! He did this bit..... Do you have a flag? Brilliant!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEx5G-GOS1k

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