[phaeryen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kevincarter', '[')topic merged}
I bet many people on this site could remember gas shortages they have seen, even if it was long ago.
In Spain in the 90's the truck drivers union got pissed at the government because of a rise in the gas price, wanting to draw attention they organized their members in such a way as to block all gas trucks leaving the port areas all over the country. Those trucks are the ones who supply gas stations. Man, did they draw attention!
4 days after there were infinite gas lines, policemen in gas stations trying to put order with little success. Radio, TV and newspapers calling for calm, people fighting on the lines, military troops escorting gas trucks, the president on national TV announcing gas rationing, empty supermarkets, worry faces, people nervous and pissed wanting it all back to normal here and now. And it was just a dumb strike.
I would like to know about those that have seen the gas lines in the 70's or any other interesting stuff.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kpeavey', 'E')very country that can develop their own SPR will do so given enough time. I expect a slow crash to produce more SPRs worldwide. A fast crash will not leave time for some countries to develop their plans.
Extending the thought to corporate SPRs:
Say the supply of oil and natural gas gets tight. It is the fiduciary duty of corporations to ensure the continued profitability of their companies. Where production is critically dependent on an energy source, electric utilities for example, having an emergency supply of that energy source would be prudent. A shortage of a resource would thus result in a spike in demand for that resource as companies attempt to hoard sufficient supplies to get them through a crisis.

With the number of electrical utilities generating power with oil and natural gas, it should only require the threat of a shortage to incite this type of hoarding response. If a utility should actually run out of fuel and shut down production, every utility out there would respond with increased demand for fuel, lest they run out and shut down production. As the supply got tighter, increasing the fuel reserve would be the next step. More demand, tighter market, higher prices. A feedback loop develops.
The larger the entity, the earlier the SPR is developed and the larger it will be. Start with national SPR in large countries, the notion will spread to smaller countries, then corporations, finally individuals will pick up a spare gas can to keep in the shed.
Hoarding begets hoarding.
Does this logic make sense or am I just wearing out my keyboard?

[evilgenius]

So, having an SPR becomes a way of surviving the volitility that comes with market shakeouts. It correlates with what is happening in the third world right now, they are dropping out of the competition for oil. In future, during terrible spikes, those without an SPR will risk dropping out as well.
The topic of sector specific reserves is interesting. It seems like a way to further survival, especially in more complex economies, during the worst volitility. Does anybody see James T. Kirk in action here?
Does anybody know if these periods of volitility tend to change the ratio of light to sour oil within the reserves? If so, by how much? Is the rate of change different for countries encountering different import or usage situations?

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'D')oes anybody know if these periods of volitility tend to change the ratio of light to sour oil within the reserves? If so, by how much? Is the rate of change different for countries encountering different import or usage situations?

[kpeavey]

{thread merged by emersonbiggins}

I've got one of these for my rototiller, used to use it for my lawn mower, but it got stolen and I replaced it with an electric mower.

A 5 gallon gas can. Price is $5.99, $6.41 after taxes, works out to $1.28/gallon.

With the hurricane season approaching, disruptions in the Gulf of Mexico can result in gas prices spiking to the $5-6 range. I paid $3.97 /gallon a few days ago. Seems to me if the price of any product will be increasing in a short period, it would be better to buy it now rather than wait. Rice, gas, wheat, sugar, tulips, it does not matter what the product is. If the price of a product is going to increase 10% in a year, buying a years supply in advance effectively gives you a 10% return on investment. Not too bad, beats a savings account.

The problem with gasoline is that it does not store well. In a year it will breakdown sufficiently that its less effective. I don't know the exact process, but if you ever had problems starting a lawn mower after its been in the garage for the winter, you know what I'm talking about. There are additives and fuel stabilizers on the market, but I'd rather not add to the expense of an already expensive commodity. To keep things simple, I'd like to store 6 months of gas.

I drove 15k miles in a year in a truck that gets 24 MPG. Thats 625 gallons of gas. A 6 month supply would be about 300 gallons. Storing it in the 5 gallon jugs above would take 60 jugs, cost an extra $384. I can see 10 jugs being useful to gather the fuel when I fill up the truck, so I would need a storage tank at home. 55 gallon barrels are easy to come by and are strong enough to hold the weight (at 8#/gallon, a full barrel would weigh 440#).

The cost of this project:
10 jugs, $64
6 barrels, $60, can be had for $10 each
300 gallons, $1200 at $4/gallon
pump, $15, gotta get the fuel back out of the barrel
TOTAL $1339 for 300 gallons of gas
price per gallon =$4.46

When I refill the jugs and barrels, the cost of the jugs and barrels does not come into the equation, its already spent. While gas will be more expensive, I get the gas all at once, effectively locking in the price until I consume the stored product. By the time gas has increased to $4.46/gallon I will have spent the same amount, but I will have the jugs and barrels as an added bonus.

Other advantages to this plan:
I only fill the truck with a few gallons at a time. Less weight to drive around. Less fuel loss in the event of someone stealing gas from my truck. I don't have to run to the gas station for 6 months. When the day comes that there is no fuel to fill the barrels, I clean them out for water storage.

If I'm going to embark on this project, I'd like to get some feedback on making it more efficient. What is the shelf life of gasoline? What factors affect gasoline stored in plastic jugs and barrels? What have I not considered?

[wisconsin_cur]

You can extend the life of gasoline with an additive. I cannot remember the chemical name but it is in mos hardware stores.

I would be cautious about where the barrels are stored, they are quite the fire risk.

I would also be very slow to use the barrels, even for rain water, afterwards.

If you use plastic barrels I would also cover them with a heavy tarp to keep the light from starting to break down the plastic.

Otherwise it sounds great, esp if you are in a position that you can afford to buy gasoline ahead of time.

[kpeavey]

I did a search, came up with Are You Hoarding Fuel thread. This thread would do well merged there.

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kpeavey', '3')00 gallons, $1200 at $4/gallon

[frankthetank]

I'd go with a big tank and an electric pump, like said above. I know some people who have one on their farm... I wouldn't mess with little cans.

Actually i'd spend the money on a scooter that gets 120mpg and store about 10 gallons

edit: I store about 3 gallons for the chainsaw, about 5 gallons for the boat and keep the cars topped off. I recently burned the rest of the fuel from last summer that was in my boat. It seemed to run fine.

[dooberheim]

I drive very little, perhaps 200 miles/year in a car that gets 40 mpg. So the average age of the fuel in my tank is over a year. It runs fine. Same with the lawn mower - the gas in it's tank was from October, and it started first pull in April.

I wonder if the concern over gasoline breaking down is overstated. I know diesel tends to grow bacteria, but gasoline doesn't.

DK

[mmasters]

Just keep about 40-50 gallons in the shed and rotate every 6 months. 200 bucks to start and will get you halfway across the country if need be. Simple.

[vision-master]

Must we have another gas goes bad thread. It seems like every two Months this is discussed. Please, use the "search" function.

[kpeavey]

earlier I wrote$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') did a search, came up with Are You Hoarding Fuel thread. This thread would do well merged there.

[GeoJAP]

I don't see that hoarding fuel is beneficial with some elementary cost/benefit analysis.

I think purchasing a good bicycle would be a better plan in this regard.

[Roy]

Financially it might not make sense.

But, during a short-term disruption, not having to wait in endless lines for fuel is a blessing.

Saved me much inconvenience in the aftermath of Katrina. Gas stations in my part of town were shut down for at least three days. The the availability was limited to a few stations around town that were of course crowded.

Having a few full cans of gas around saved me much hassle and worry.

I keep about 15 gallons, treated with Stabil. Hint: add the stabil to an empty can, then fill 'er up.

That will keep my chainsaw, motorcycle, or car running for a while in short term shortage scenario.

YMMV.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'I') used to wait until my tank was empty before buying gas. Now I refill at the halfway point. Not just because I'm afraid there will be shortages, but because I've read that fuel efficiency is higher if you keep your tank at least half full.

[patience]

I would really like to know the name of the chemical used to stabilize gas. Could it be: denatured alcohol (absorbs water), or xylol (used in injector cleaner), or acetone (can improve mileage in small %) ? Collecting such info is a hobby, and very useful at times. Often saves money.

[Pops]

Naw.

Like anything else we rich folks have become used to, we aren't rich enough to store all we and all our offspring will require.

I do try to keep some in the tank and a can or two around so I don't need to drive into town if I want to start the generator, chainsaw or tractor.


The thing to hoard is the knowledge and tools to do essential stuff without fossil fuel.

[alokin]

I didn't read the whole thread but I would not recommend to hoard fuel.
1. because it's highly flammable
2. because (at least for city dwellers) if you live close to your stock there is always evaporation which is poisonous.
3.it might leak in the watertable

[WisJim]

We keep a couple of 5 gallon cans of gas on hand so that we have fuel for chain saws, garden tillers, tractor, etc. Trying to use electric motors on more of the larger power items, such as the garden chipper/shredder, which had a 5 to 7 hp engine on it, and I replaced the old non-running engine with a 1 1/2 hp electric motor, which runs fine from my inverter. Using electricity that we produce from the sun and wind is preferable to using gasoline that I have to buy, but finding or converting the tools is time consuming.