[Denny]

One theme that keeps coming up is that the United States will break up in the event of the dislocations that come from peak oil. But, I am not clear why this could ever be a useful thing to consider. Isn't the diversity of the economy one of America's greatest strengths , a function of its large geography?

The mosaic of the United States seems to be perhaps its greatest strength as it faces adversity. Each region has its strengths and its needs. United, it seems by common sense, everybody is better off, more secure. When one aspect of the economy is down, another can be up, and that is a stabilizing factor. So, more than ever before in history, Americans should seek unity.

Also, beyond economics and security, isn't every American proud that the country spans sea to sea and beauty of the Appalachians, the Florida beaches, the Grand Canyon and Pacific northwest, to say nothing of Puerto Rico, Alaska and Hawaii, belongs to every American as a birthright?

[vetusfirma]

Every other country in the world wants the US to fall, meaning break up. Additionally, the Blacks, Hispanics, Indians, Chinese, Hawaiians and Russians have a deep seated hate for the US. The liberals have been taught from birth that everything that is wrong with the world is because of the US, so I'd say the chances of the US breaking up are very small.

They will try, but none of them fight well, and we will prevail.

Just my thoughts.

[Hoops_Mckann]

I could possibly see the US fracturing into a few separate nations based on the intense regional self rightousness of peoples political views. It seems like it has been more pronounced as of late.

[Homesteader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vetusfirma', 'E')very other country in the world wants the US to fall, meaning break up. Additionally, the Blacks, Hispanics, Indians, Chinese, Hawaiians and Russians have a deep seated hate for the US. The liberals have been taught from birth that everything that is wrong with the world is because of the US, so I'd say the chances of the US breaking up are very small.
They will try, but none of them fight well, and we will prevail.
Just my thoughts.

[mos6507]

A lot of people have an axe to grind against the US and are attracted to Peak Oil as a form of wish fulfillment for the destruction of the US. Oddly enough, some of these people are americans themselves, and would probably wind up dead in any sort of violent uprising, foreign invasion, mushroom cloud, or any other doomsday scenario they dream up for us.

[Leanan]

If you're really interested in this subject, you might want to read The Untied States of America: Polarization, Fracturing, and Our Future.

Yes, that's "Untied," not "United." He argues that historically, nations are not static. Just viewed through the lens of history...the chance of the US surviving as it is is unlikely.

With peak oil, I think it's even more likely we will break up. Centralized government has an energy cost. The world will get larger, and it will get more and more difficult for Washington to call the shots all over the country. It will simply become more efficient for local government to do things that the feds do now.

Politically speaking, it could be argued that we've never really healed from the Civil War. A lot of the Red vs. Blue state divide is geographically the same as the South vs. the North. As times get tougher, I think a lot of these old schisms will intensify.

[Farknight]

IMHO the US would be prudent to stick it out as a 'Mega Continental State". There are economies of scale in areas as far ranging as national defense to resource bases that favor bigger players. The world ahead will be much less secure than even that of the past century due to resource deprivation. Fracturing our nation would only embolden those that would destroy us to gain what we currently control.

An example in real life would be a gang. Not that I am supporting gangs, mind you, but the analogy popped into my mind. If you live in a rough and tumble section of the projects you know that everyone is out to get you or at least your stuff. It is the law of the jungle at street level as opposed to the same activity played out in pinstripes on Wall Street. Now, if you are in a large, powerful and well respected gang you will be untouchable due to the inevitable terrible payback for any onslaught. However, if the gang fractures and you become a solo actor again, it would be best to move and do so quickly. Suddenly you are easy pickings for the gangs that hold it together and support each other.[i]

[Kingcoal]

It's an interesting subject because the US was formed as a federation of countries (former colonies.) The Constitution is the only thing holding the country together. Right now, the country is tighter and more uniform than it's ever been. The country went through a lot of growing pains, for example, the Civil War, which established the permanence of the Constitution. The Civil War set the president that, like the Mafia, there is no leaving the union once admitted. That wasn't exactly the view before that war.

In light of that, I doubt the USA will break up.

[vetusfirma]

White Supremacist, that never plays very well.[/quote]
hmm..... white supremacist? That thought has never crossed my mind, but it was the first to cross yours...hmmm

In reality I'm a 'E pluribus unum' kind of guy.

The only reason their are problems in the world is because we stopped making states. If we would have continued we would have a one world government, of the right kind, and all would be happy.

[americandream]

The elite love you unswervingly loyal nationalists. You never fail them when the chips are down.

[the48thronin]

The only reason their are problems in the world is because we stopped making states. If we would have continued we would have a one world government, of the right kind, and all would be happy.
Are you sure you have thought this out before you posted that? If you are truly advocating that the Federal USA government should have "made more states" are you then advocating the conquering of all other territories in the world?

Let's sit back a minute and even as proud of the USA as we are give the rest of the nations in the world a little credit for being existent with their own sovereignty can we?

The polarization of the USA has been the chosen force each of the political parties has used to flog their faithful base into voting as apathy sets in with the reality of the lack of any real effective governance and leadership each party has shown in it's time "in charge."

Factorization of our country is possible because each different political group has demonized the opponent and devalued their existence and rights to co exist. The peak oil scenario is only one of the building pressures that the ineffectual leadership has allowed to continue to grow and fester. Without problems to blame the other side for, they would have nothing to base a claim to usurp leadership on.

Adding in some hysterical mega-maniacal complex about world domination on our terms simply shows a lack of desire to ( or understanding to)actually face the internal problems and look for internal solutions.

Invading your neighbors and demanding they live under your standards is never the answer to domestic crisis, and pretending some superiority to all others is not either.

[the48thronin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'O')ne theme that keeps coming up is that the United States will break up in the event of the dislocations that come from peak oil. But, I am not clear why this could ever be a useful thing to consider. Isn't the diversity of the economy one of America's greatest strengths , a function of its large geography?
The mosaic of the United States seems to be perhaps its greatest strength as it faces adversity. Each region has its strengths and its needs. United, it seems by common sense, everybody is better off, more secure. When one aspect of the economy is down, another can be up, and that is a stabilizing factor. So, more than ever before in history, Americans should seek unity.
Also, beyond economics and security, isn't every American proud that the country spans sea to sea and beauty of the Appalachians, the Florida beaches, the Grand Canyon and Pacific northwest, to say nothing of Puerto Rico, Alaska and Hawaii, belongs to every American as a birthright?

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('the48thronin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'O')ne theme that keeps coming up is that the United States will break up in the event of the dislocations that come from peak oil. But, I am not clear why this could ever be a useful thing to consider. Isn't the diversity of the economy one of America's greatest strengths , a function of its large geography?
The mosaic of the United States seems to be perhaps its greatest strength as it faces adversity. Each region has its strengths and its needs. United, it seems by common sense, everybody is better off, more secure. When one aspect of the economy is down, another can be up, and that is a stabilizing factor. So, more than ever before in history, Americans should seek unity.
Also, beyond economics and security, isn't every American proud that the country spans sea to sea and beauty of the Appalachians, the Florida beaches, the Grand Canyon and Pacific northwest, to say nothing of Puerto Rico, Alaska and Hawaii, belongs to every American as a birthright?

[emeraldg40]

Im not sure, let me go poll my neighbors, you know, the ones flying the Mexican flag in the front yard and the ones that have the Mexican flag pasted to the rear window in their pick up truck. Of course, I can't forget to ask the white teenage crackheads or the black brothers downtown that live in war daily just praying that the next drive by dosnt kill their child. You speak of Americana in its day of glory. I truly hope to see my amber waves of grain once again. Thanks for the chance to vent.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'O')ne theme that keeps coming up is that the United States will break up in the event of the dislocations that come from peak oil. But, I am not clear why this could ever be a useful thing to consider. Isn't the diversity of the economy one of America's greatest strengths , a function of its large geography?
The mosaic of the United States seems to be perhaps its greatest strength as it faces adversity. Each region has its strengths and its needs. United, it seems by common sense, everybody is better off, more secure. When one aspect of the economy is down, another can be up, and that is a stabilizing factor. So, more than ever before in history, Americans should seek unity.
Also, beyond economics and security, isn't every American proud that the country spans sea to sea and beauty of the Appalachians, the Florida beaches, the Grand Canyon and Pacific northwest, to say nothing of Puerto Rico, Alaska and Hawaii, belongs to every American as a birthright?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emeraldg40', 'I')m not sure, let me go poll my neighbors, you know, the ones flying the Mexican flag in the front yard and the ones that have the Mexican flag pasted to the rear window in their pick up truck.

[dunewalker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'I')f you're really interested in this subject, you might want to read The Untied States of America: Polarization, Fracturing, and Our Future.
Yes, that's "Untied," not "United." He argues that historically, nations are not static. Just viewed through the lens of history...the chance of the US surviving as it is is unlikely.
With peak oil, I think it's even more likely we will break up. Centralized government has an energy cost. The world will get larger, and it will get more and more difficult for Washington to call the shots all over the country. It will simply become more efficient for local government to do things that the feds do now.
Politically speaking, it could be argued that we've never really healed from the Civil War. A lot of the Red vs. Blue state divide is geographically the same as the South vs. the North. As times get tougher, I think a lot of these old schisms will intensify.

[TheDude]

Having a fascination with history and maps I've always been attracted to schemes for reshaping the US, such as the Nine Nations of North America. The states we have are totally arbitrary in shape, and like Leanan says, running things from a distant city has an energy cost; other configurations would be far more efficient in almost every regard.

But since people have romantic attachments to these things they will become quite vehementthat they be left alone, no matter how problematic it will be.

[Kaj]

So are there any serious calls or movements in the US for regional independence?

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kaj', 'S')o are there any serious calls or movements in the US for regional independence?

[vetusfirma]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('the48thronin', '[')b]The only reason their are problems in the world is because we stopped making states. If we would have continued we would have a one world government, of the right kind, and all would be happy.
Are you sure you have thought this out before you posted that? If you are truly advocating that the Federal USA government should have "made more states" are you then advocating the conquering of all other territories in the world?
Let's sit back a minute and even as proud of the USA as we are give the rest of the nations in the world a little credit for being existent with their own sovereignty can we?
The polarization of the USA has been the chosen force each of the political parties has used to flog their faithful base into voting as apathy sets in with the reality of the lack of any real effective governance and leadership each party has shown in it's time "in charge."
Factorization of our country is possible because each different political group has demonized the opponent and devalued their existence and rights to co exist. The peak oil scenario is only one of the building pressures that the ineffectual leadership has allowed to continue to grow and fester. Without problems to blame the other side for, they would have nothing to base a claim to usurp leadership on.
Adding in some hysterical mega-maniacal complex about world domination on our terms simply shows a lack of desire to ( or understanding to)actually face the internal problems and look for internal solutions.
Invading your neighbors and demanding they live under your standards is never the answer to domestic crisis, and pretending some superiority to all others is not either.