A response to RocDoc, then signing off....
1. I stand by my statement that most Americans would consider a $400 million retirement package for one person (the past CEO of ExxonMobil) to be excessive. If you think it's not excessive, that's of couse your personal opinion, but I challenge you to disagree with the statement itself that "most Americans" right now in 2008 would find that excessive.
2. If the private oil industry desperately needed more money to explore for oil, they wouldn't be paying out huge and growing dividends to their shareholders at this time.
3. Your ideological comments about Leninism and Communism are just name-calling. I'm a capitalist raising legitimate questions about how the world would fund a massive transition away from fossil fuels. One position would be diverting profits from the oil industry that were not being reinvested in exploration or refining capacity.
4. Your comments about my Christian beliefs and objections to using my Saviour's name as an obscenity are quite revealing. If you need to insult someone's cherished religious beliefs to get your point across, I have doubts about your reasoning ability. Is it not possible to be respectful in a forum like this, or does it always have to degenerated into name-calling, nastiness and obscenity? If the later case is true, I certainly don't belong here and neither do others who have sincere religious beliefs.
The question is: Do you want to limit the discussion and drive away people like me for the sake of being nasty about their religion? If so, you win, buddy.
A note to BigTex:
As a new member of PeakOil forums, I had hoped to be able to at least have one discussion on a legit issue without being called a "Leninist Commie who worships blow-up dolls." It's not that I have a thin skin (I'm 50 and I've been in far rougher places than most people -- 32 countries in all -- including multiple life-threatening situations, detention by secret police, etc.). It's just that I hoped that PeakOil would have a higher level of debate and discussion.
Others posters have added valuable insights, but the general direction is down the toilet here. I won't add my thoughts to PeakOil again for that reason. I bet that lots of other posters have had the same experience.
Best of luck.
PeakOil is You
Is it time to nationalize the U.S. oil and gas industry?
Re: Is it time to nationalize the U.S. oil and gas industry?
by Economix » Thu 29 May 2008, 11:50:08
-
Economix - Wood
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 03:00:00
Re: Is it time to nationalize the U.S. oil and gas industry?
by BigTex » Thu 29 May 2008, 12:08:16
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Economix', 'A') note to BigTex:
As a new member of PeakOil forums, I had hoped to be able to at least have one discussion on a legit issue without being called a "Leninist Commie who worships blow-up dolls." It's not that I have a thin skin (I'm 50 and I've been in far rougher places than most people -- 32 countries in all -- including multiple life-threatening situations, detention by secret police, etc.). It's just that I hoped that PeakOil would have a higher level of debate and discussion.
Others posters have added valuable insights, but the general direction is down the toilet here. I won't add my thoughts to PeakOil again for that reason. I bet that lots of other posters have had the same experience.
Best of luck.
As a new member of PeakOil forums, I had hoped to be able to at least have one discussion on a legit issue without being called a "Leninist Commie who worships blow-up dolls." It's not that I have a thin skin (I'm 50 and I've been in far rougher places than most people -- 32 countries in all -- including multiple life-threatening situations, detention by secret police, etc.). It's just that I hoped that PeakOil would have a higher level of debate and discussion.
Others posters have added valuable insights, but the general direction is down the toilet here. I won't add my thoughts to PeakOil again for that reason. I bet that lots of other posters have had the same experience.
Best of luck.
Best of luck to you too.
If you ever want to come back, please feel free.
Pretty good group here.
You will find that the stuff you cite as offensive is mostly just newbie hazing. Once you get in the groove you can have some pretty high-end discussions of just about anything you want to cover.
Thanks for stopping by.
-
BigTex - Intermediate Crude
- Posts: 3858
- Joined: Thu 03 Aug 2006, 03:00:00
- Location: Graceland
Re: Is it time to nationalize the U.S. oil and gas industry?
by vision-master » Thu 29 May 2008, 12:43:29
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Economix', 'A') response to RocDoc, then signing off....
1. I stand by my statement that most Americans would consider a $400 million retirement package for one person (the past CEO of ExxonMobil) to be excessive. If you think it's not excessive, that's of couse your personal opinion, but I challenge you to disagree with the statement itself that "most Americans" right now in 2008 would find that excessive.
2. If the private oil industry desperately needed more money to explore for oil, they wouldn't be paying out huge and growing dividends to their shareholders at this time.
3. Your ideological comments about Leninism and Communism are just name-calling. I'm a capitalist raising legitimate questions about how the world would fund a massive transition away from fossil fuels. One position would be diverting profits from the oil industry that were not being reinvested in exploration or refining capacity.
4. Your comments about my Christian beliefs and objections to using my Saviour's name as an obscenity are quite revealing. If you need to insult someone's cherished religious beliefs to get your point across, I have doubts about your reasoning ability. Is it not possible to be respectful in a forum like this, or does it always have to degenerated into name-calling, nastiness and obscenity? If the later case is true, I certainly don't belong here and neither do others who have sincere religious beliefs.
The question is: Do you want to limit the discussion and drive away people like me for the sake of being nasty about their religion? If so, you win, buddy.
A note to BigTex:
As a new member of PeakOil forums, I had hoped to be able to at least have one discussion on a legit issue without being called a "Leninist Commie who worships blow-up dolls." It's not that I have a thin skin (I'm 50 and I've been in far rougher places than most people -- 32 countries in all -- including multiple life-threatening situations, detention by secret police, etc.). It's just that I hoped that PeakOil would have a higher level of debate and discussion.
Others posters have added valuable insights, but the general direction is down the toilet here. I won't add my thoughts to PeakOil again for that reason. I bet that lots of other posters have had the same experience.
Best of luck.
1. I stand by my statement that most Americans would consider a $400 million retirement package for one person (the past CEO of ExxonMobil) to be excessive. If you think it's not excessive, that's of couse your personal opinion, but I challenge you to disagree with the statement itself that "most Americans" right now in 2008 would find that excessive.
2. If the private oil industry desperately needed more money to explore for oil, they wouldn't be paying out huge and growing dividends to their shareholders at this time.
3. Your ideological comments about Leninism and Communism are just name-calling. I'm a capitalist raising legitimate questions about how the world would fund a massive transition away from fossil fuels. One position would be diverting profits from the oil industry that were not being reinvested in exploration or refining capacity.
4. Your comments about my Christian beliefs and objections to using my Saviour's name as an obscenity are quite revealing. If you need to insult someone's cherished religious beliefs to get your point across, I have doubts about your reasoning ability. Is it not possible to be respectful in a forum like this, or does it always have to degenerated into name-calling, nastiness and obscenity? If the later case is true, I certainly don't belong here and neither do others who have sincere religious beliefs.
The question is: Do you want to limit the discussion and drive away people like me for the sake of being nasty about their religion? If so, you win, buddy.
A note to BigTex:
As a new member of PeakOil forums, I had hoped to be able to at least have one discussion on a legit issue without being called a "Leninist Commie who worships blow-up dolls." It's not that I have a thin skin (I'm 50 and I've been in far rougher places than most people -- 32 countries in all -- including multiple life-threatening situations, detention by secret police, etc.). It's just that I hoped that PeakOil would have a higher level of debate and discussion.
Others posters have added valuable insights, but the general direction is down the toilet here. I won't add my thoughts to PeakOil again for that reason. I bet that lots of other posters have had the same experience.
Best of luck.
A little thin skinned I'd say.........
- vision-master
Re: Is it time to nationalize the U.S. oil and gas industry?
by Cashmere » Thu 29 May 2008, 13:48:57
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') think today's ExxonMobile shareholder meeting (read the news postings) demonstrates that certain corporate boards and executives are incredibly narrow-minded about the dangers we now face -- and how to address them.
I disagree.
Boards are extremely easy to understand and predict.
They will do what they think is best to raise stock value.
That simple.
It's not a question of narrow or open mindedness, public service, private greed, or anything else.
Just like you can expect a guard bee to attack anything coming near the hive entrance, you can expect CEOs and boards to do whatever they need to do to raise stock value.
So Exxon's announcement was perfectly predictable.
Massive Human Dieoff <b>must</b> occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where <b>you</b> live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
-
Cashmere - Heavy Crude
- Posts: 1882
- Joined: Thu 27 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Re: Is it time to nationalize the U.S. oil and gas industry?
by BigTex » Thu 29 May 2008, 14:23:56
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')he lack of imagination and historical perspective at PO regularly dumbfound me. There was a time not long ago when government was not perceived a priori as bad thing, except at the fringes (The Goldwater binge was the last example, in the 1960's).
***
How did we become an infantile auto-dependent suburban country tied to oil waste? Why did we not use oil taxes to build a less oil-dependent system? Why did we spend our wealth on crap. Because we hate government. Why? Most recently because of Vietnam.
***
How did we become an infantile auto-dependent suburban country tied to oil waste? Why did we not use oil taxes to build a less oil-dependent system? Why did we spend our wealth on crap. Because we hate government. Why? Most recently because of Vietnam.
Watergate and Vietnam together were a powerful one-two punch.
Also, making all of the future promises in the form of Medicare and Social Security with no way to pay for them also undermined the collective sense of confidence in government.
Once the U.S. went to a fiat currency, the value of the dollar has steadily eroded, and along with it the credibility of the government to provide a stable environment in which to do business.
The Great Society and other social engineering projects have mostly been a complete failure.
As the Iraq war enters its seventh year, we are daily reminded that war is just another big government program with no apparent purpose other than to give government agencies something to do and a pretext for more spending.
Overall, I think what people hate is the size of the current government, not the idea of government.
The fundamental problem is that it is vastly easier to make poor financial decisions with someone else's money than with your own. When something doesn't work out as expected, all a politician needs to do is raise taxes or borrow more money. This, to me, is the story of how the government got so big in the first place--it's a multi-trillion dollar "pin the tail on the donkey" problem solving strategy.
-
BigTex - Intermediate Crude
- Posts: 3858
- Joined: Thu 03 Aug 2006, 03:00:00
- Location: Graceland
