[ecopal]

The debate is twofold. Most around here are positioning themselves for an inevitable meltdown of civilization it seems. The other side would be how to be position yourself to just be a good steward of the environment and to use the fewest possible resources while keeping your same job and, I guess, a slightly less extreme vision of what might come. How does one reasonably cut back and what makes the most sense? Do you really think it is too late for everyone to just reduce consumption?

[Ferretlover]

Too late to just reduce consumption?
Yes, I think it is. While energy saving may put off the inevitable for a bit longer in some areas, there are just too many people for the resources that are left.
Someone, and by that I mean a Lot of someones, are going to have to go.

[Blacksmith]

I will beg to differ with the majority of people and prehaps even with myself, but condo's are a very efficient way to live.

If we have a liquid fuel shortage that does not mean we will have an energy shortage. Electricity will still heat the condo, and it is cheaper to feed a concentrated many than spead out few. A group of people will make repairs an easier thing, and railroads will be able to transport the essential of life.
Just look at the diversity of products you have in a city versus a small town or an isolated farm.

[max_in_wa]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', 'T')oo late to just reduce consumption?
Yes, I think it is. While energy saving may put off the inevitable for a bit longer in some areas, there are just too many people for the resources that are left.
Someone, and by that I mean a Lot of someones, are going to have to go.

[Heineken]

We face an incredibly difficult future that will be incredibly different from everything we are accustomed to. Some of us just can't do the gymnastic cognitive flip that is required to absorb and accept that fact. If there is one thing I have learned on this website is that there are no easy answers and that in some cases there are no answers. Many will die; many MUST die. I personally fully expect to die prematurely.

So place yer bet and spin the wheel. I'd rather die in the woods than in a condo because a condo is just not my style.

[ORCA]

This is an interesting thread. I see advantages on both sides regarding urban living in multi-family dwelling as opposed to single family dwelling - both urban and rural.

I live on five acres of land in a county bordering a city. My land is zoned agricultural. It is part of a subdivision of sorts, with the smallest "lot" being five acres...like mine. There are about 32 other houses in this development populated with hard-working families used to rural life and self-suffeciency. There is one way in for vehicles across a bridge onto a private road that we maintain ourselves. Controlling access would be easy if we chose to do so.

Having recently retired, I have the time and good health at 57 to work our property to grow food, provide wood for heat, and also provide security (if required). It would be a simple thing for the families to band together, if necessary or beneficial, to grow food and/or provide security.

While destinctly rural here, the "city" is only four miles up the road. The city is 50 sq. miles in size and has a pop. of about 62K. Surrounding the city are three mostly rural counties. This entire region has the abilty to feed itself. Being good 'ol Southern folk of all colors, we also have the abilty to keep the zombies OUT...if you know what I mean. I can't imagine living any other way or anywhere else, including a condo. Sorry, but living in what is basically an apartment within feet of strangers might be the cheapest under normal conditions, its a sinking ship if society begins to unravel.

Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

[max_in_wa]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ORCA', '.').I live on five acres of land in a county bordering a city. My land is zoned agricultural. It is part of a subdivision of sorts, with the smallest "lot" being five acres...like mine. There are about 32 other houses in this development ...
Having recently retired, I have the time and good health at 57 to work our property to grow food, provide wood for heat, and also provide security (if required). It would be a simple thing for the families to band together, if necessary or beneficial, to grow food and/or provide security. ...

[Kingcoal]

The lowest per capita users of energy are NYC residents, who are on par and possibly slightly lower than Europeans as a whole. City living is efficient because of the available public transit, communal living, etc. Cities existed long before the oil age and will continue to exist and thrive post peak. Suburban areas are a different story because the lifestyle is generally built around the automobile, which may well become almost extinct post peak.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('max_in_wa', 'H')ow will the wood be cut? The chainsaw won't be running...
I've done some of this sort of stuff and it really makes me value the 25,000 man hours of labor contained in a barrel of oil.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'T')he lowest per capita users of energy

[max_in_wa]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('max_in_wa', 'H')ow will the wood be cut? The chainsaw won't be running...
I've done some of this sort of stuff and it really makes me value the 25,000 man hours of labor contained in a barrel of oil.

[alokin]

NYC is only efficient because the energy of their food supply is not taken into calculation (correct me if I am wrong). Who will feed all these people?
The problem is that in former times half of the population was involved in agriculture today most have no idea how to plant a decent crop of potatoes. I don't remember if Kunstler or Heinberg wrote this, one of the two said something like "we may have the advantage of a superior knowledge to our forebearers" like permaculture etc., this is crab, we forgot most of the techniques one need for a decent live without fossil fuels and supermarkets.

[ORCA]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('max_in_wa', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ORCA', '.').I live on five acres of land in a county bordering a city. My land is zoned agricultural. It is part of a subdivision of sorts, with the smallest "lot" being five acres...like mine. There are about 32 other houses in this development ...
Having recently retired, I have the time and good health at 57 to work our property to grow food, provide wood for heat, and also provide security (if required). It would be a simple thing for the families to band together, if necessary or beneficial, to grow food and/or provide security. ...

[Mehitabel]

I'm reviving this old thread because it seems close to the topic I'd like to get some feedback on.

I'm currently living in a suburban condo in a medium sized development. I've been looking around in viable areas for single family homes but I don't know if I want to go that route. For one thing my household is just my young daughter and me. I don't really like the idea of the two of us living alone in an isolated area. I feel there may be security value in building relationships in our community. Our current situation does have disadvantages but there are advantages as well. Our unit has a patio/flowerbed area that gets excellent sun. Our unit is a basement one so it is fairly inexpensive to heat and cool (though I know this may also be a security issue). We are in an older suburb with a better location than newer developments. We have 2 grocery stores and my credit union in a 2 mile radius. The CSA we just joined and the Post Office are less than 3 miles away. The library is 4 miles away. I have an extra bedroom, a garage, and a storage locker for provisions. We also live within 10 miles of my 2 brothers, my sister, and my parents - all of whom would take us in if necessary. My condo is quite a bit cheaper than rent or a house would be and it's in one of the best school districts in our area. We have a pretty good sized creek and quite a bit of wooded area nearby. We also have quite a bit of lawn space in the community.

All in all I'm tempted to stay put and pay down my mortgage (I just paid off my Prius and will be able to pay off my only credit card debt with my tax refund), invest in a couple of good bikes, make my unit as energy efficient as possible and see if I can interest the community in emergency preparedness.

There are some sustainable communities in the region but the best established one is in a not so good Cincinnati neighborhood and they are all further away from my family. I'm thinking I will visit them to get ideas to try to share with my neighbors here.

I'm sort of thinking out loud here but would appreciate any input.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mehitabel', ' ')I feel there may be security value in building relationships in our community.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mehitabel', 'A')ll in all I'm tempted to stay put and pay down my mortgage (I just paid off my Prius and will be able to pay off my only credit card debt with my tax refund), invest in a couple of good bikes, make my unit as energy efficient as possible and see if I can interest the community in emergency preparedness.

[Beery1]

Basically, anyone thinking of going it alone, stocking up on ammunition and hiding out in the hills is delusional. 100% of the people who tried it wouldn't last beyond their first winter.

[mhseesk]

The growth of the ‘Sprawl Frontier’ continues to threaten many of our more rural communities and watershed areas.We need better zoning and other tools to enable communities to grow in a sustainable way.


energy efficient light