[Fredrik]

Nowadays it's considered a sign of reactionarism and latent racism to speak straightforwardly against a particular ethnic minority in civilized company. (Well, the Roma aka "lazy dishonest Gypsies" are pretty free game around here even among rather educated and liberal people.)

When the economy gets tight enough and last hopes to avert the worst wane, there will probably be a meme shift in this regard. The floodgates will open.

[MrBill]

When times are good, and people are fat and happy, they tend to be more liberal. But hard times breed tough attitudes toward crime and visible groups that are a drain on society's limited resources. Not even the Soviets could integrate the Romas. Rough frontier justice is no worse than collectively ignoring an economic and social problem that will not go away on its own. Peak tolerance.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'W')hen times are good, and people are fat and happy, they tend to be more liberal. But hard times breed tough attitudes toward crime and visible groups that are a drain on society's limited resources. Not even the Soviets could integrate the Romas. Rough frontier justice is no worse than collectively ignoring an economic and social problem that will not go away on its own. Peak tolerance.

[Cloud9]

Anything south of Rome is Africa. Indeed. It begins again. The process of becoming evil is well under way. The dehumanization of the sub group has begun.

The Roma need to take note of the direction of the political wind. If they wait until the identity cards are passed out it will be too late. Text deleted. The rumblings in the mainstream will in time re light the fires of Auschwitz and Bukenwald.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', '[')u]Anything south of Rome is Africa. Indeed. It begins again. The process of becoming evil is well under way. The dehumanization of the sub group has begun.

The Roma need to take note of the direction of the political wind. If they wait until the identity cards are passed out it will be too late. Text deleted. The rumblings in the mainstream will in time re light the fires of Auschwitz and Bukenwald.

[Pretorian]

Have anyone here among pro-Gypsi guys had actually known any Gypsie? Have anyone here had seen any Gypsie actually working? Because I sure haven't, aside from a few street peddlers.
If you think Gypsies are all that nice, why were they expelled from India in the first place?

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'I')f you think Gypsies are all that nice, why were they expelled from India in the first place?

[Ayoob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'A')ll of those moves took place during an era of open borders. Will my moral right to belong where I am be terminated if those borders close? --snip-- Perhaps you are comfortable with the arbitrary. It may be necessary, but I am not comfortable with it.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t looks like you don't have much sympathy for the law-abiding people of Italy who don't want their babies kidnapped, or their wallets stolen, or their town squares polluted with beggars.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'H')ave anyone here among pro-Gypsi guys had actually known any Gypsie? Have anyone here had seen any Gypsie actually working? Because I sure haven't, aside from a few street peddlers.
If you think Gypsies are all that nice, why were they expelled from India in the first place?

[Ayoob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'H')ave anyone here among pro-Gypsi guys had actually known any Gypsie? Have anyone here had seen any Gypsie actually working? Because I sure haven't, aside from a few street peddlers. If you think Gypsies are all that nice, why were they expelled from India in the first place?

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'P')erhaps the USA should have deported all Italians when the mob was at the height of its power?

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'M')y estimation is that not all Italians were in the mob at any moment. My knowledge is that there are no Gypsies living off their labour of any kind. Not a single one Gypsie.

[Ayoob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', ' ')I am not trying to say what the policy should be, that is not my gig. I am only saying we should feel for the people effected by that policy as if they were people because they are people.
--snip-- But that does not mean that we can not feel for those negatively effected by the policy. Especially when they were law-abiding working Romas caught up in a bad situation because a visible percentage of Romas were involved in crime.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', ' ')Why do you care MORE for the plight of the criminal aggressors, and less for the peaceful people just trying to live out the day in their homes? -snip- You must be a boomer.

[Ayoob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'N')o. He/she is the next in the line.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

Even ten years ago people got travel advice that said if you went to Italy that you should always carry your purse clutched in your hands. Never hang it on your shoulder by the strap and if you are stupid enough to carry a purse make it a decoy and use a money belt instead.

So what the beef? Its always had a bad reputation internationally for being crime ridden. so what, Gypsies made it worse? :shocked: is that possible?

[Ayoob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'E')ven ten years ago people got travel advice that said if you went to Italy that you should always carry your purse clutched in your hands. --snip--so what, Gypsies made it worse? :shocked: is that possible?

[seldom_seen]

Someone told me that the Italians are the Mexicans of Europe (Come to think of it someone else told me that the Iraqi's are the Mexicans of the Middle East). Man, the Mexicans don't get many breaks around the world. Atleast I capitalized Mexicans throughout this paragraph.

[wisconsin_cur]

My issue is not with policy, let me repeat, that is not my gig. Italy wants to deport all women over 50 or all left-handed people who pick their nose, that is their business. I reserve the right, however, to feel for those women over fifty or southpaw nose pickers. Compassion is not a crime. You can even feel it for people who are getting "what they deserve." It doesn't cost you anything. You should try it sometime.

I do take issue with rabid dualism. Italians = all good, Roma = all bad, boomers= bad, Ayoob's generation = good. I have known a few lazy Italians, I have also known some industrious ones. I have known Poles of all different degrees of intelligence. I met a boomer once who was not flaky (only one but it is the exception that matters )and I even met a Gen Xer who was not wrapped up in technology, I know a Jew who is bad with money and I know an Asian that is bad at math. I have known young black men that work harder each and every day than I do (and I really work some days). I have met an Amish man that liked to rap (about pious things and with some low German thrown in of course) and an inner city kid that wanted to become a dairy farmer. I even met a conscientious government employee.

I have a problem with language and arguments that rest on exclusive statements because they do not reflect reality, they cannot reflect reality. And I while I happen to find some arguments of post-modernism convincing, I still think there is a reality and if we are careful we can talk in such a way that communicates the nature of that reality.

Now you can call other people names as much as you want, it does not change the fact that you have not addressed a single one of the arguments or questions that I have posed.

I should thank you, yours is the exact type of behavior I expect to increase as scarcity becomes more prevelant and wanted to track in this thread.

To have a lot of company, however, does not make one right or, more importantly, more human. It just means you are part of a mob.