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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Can the Government do nothing about the price of oil?

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Which camp do you belong to? read down.

Poll ended at Mon 23 Jun 2008, 11:34:16

Camp A
5
No votes
Camp B
5
No votes
Camp C
2
No votes
 
Total votes : 12

Re: Can the Government do nothing about the price of oil?

Unread postby Pops » Sat 24 May 2008, 18:43:30

I'm in Camp D - Which in my camp means: it's up to you to reduce your need.
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The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Can the Government do nothing about the price of oil?

Unread postby vandal49588 » Sat 24 May 2008, 18:58:20

Don.t expect the government to lift a finger to help the working class. The Feds are the problem. That Congressional grilling of oil executives this week was purely a show to give us working stiffs the illusion of government concern.
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Re: Can the Government do nothing about the price of oil?

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 26 May 2008, 00:06:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'R')ead up on Jimmy Carter's Presidency.

I'm sorry, but Carter is no saint when it comes to getting the US off of oil. The Carter Doctrine is no different from what we have today with the neocons (i.e. militarily protecting access to supply).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Doctrine
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Re: Can the Government do nothing about the price of oil?

Unread postby BigTex » Mon 26 May 2008, 00:21:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'R')ead up on Jimmy Carter's Presidency.

I'm sorry, but Carter is no saint when it comes to getting the US off of oil. The Carter Doctrine is no different from what we have today with the neocons (i.e. militarily protecting access to supply).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Doctrine

That was my point. What Carter did (broad attempts to reduce demand) was well-intentioned, but politically just didn't work very well.

There is also the matter of Jevon's Paradox, which the folks may or may not have been aware of back then.

I just don't think there is much of a government solution that wouldn't create more problems than it would solve. Even if it were perfectly designed, it would get screwed up in its execution.
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Re: Can the Government do nothing about the price of oil?

Unread postby lawnchair » Mon 26 May 2008, 01:05:52

Byron above mentioned one thing a government can do. That is to invest in non-oil transit modes. If nothing else, improved transit increases price elasticity. That is, more people will say "$4 is too much" and reduce demand if there is another option available. The breaking point between "I'll drive or I'll deal with reasonably inconvenient bus/train schedules" is a whole lot lower than the threshold between "I'll drive or I'll have to bike 25 miles".

They could also offer tax subsidies in the transport sector... perhaps incentives to maintain branch-line and double-track main line freight railroads. It would reduce demand (some), but it would also help rising oil prices not have quite as heavy an impact on every other sector of the economy.
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Re: Can the Government do nothing about the price of oil?

Unread postby Denny » Mon 26 May 2008, 01:29:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lawnchair', 'B')yron above mentioned one thing a government can do. That is to invest in non-oil transit modes. If nothing else, improved transit increases price elasticity. That is, more people will say "$4 is too much" and reduce demand if there is another option available. The breaking point between "I'll drive or I'll deal with reasonably inconvenient bus/train schedules" is a whole lot lower than the threshold between "I'll drive or I'll have to bike 25 miles".
They could also offer tax subsidies in the transport sector... perhaps incentives to maintain branch-line and double-track main line freight railroads. It would reduce demand (some), but it would also help rising oil prices not have quite as heavy an impact on every other sector of the economy.

This is a good stuff. Likely the smartest thing the government can do. Since the U.S. imports so much, and competes on the world market with other countries' consumers, Congress is only a paper tiger when it pretends to be able to have any regulatory force over prices.

A big question is how will the government pay for it? Well they could start by freezing existing interstate expansion projects and redeploy that money. Putting billions of tax dollars into more interstates is just money being flushed down the drain.
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Re: Can the Government do nothing about the price of oil?

Unread postby bodigami » Mon 26 May 2008, 02:38:12

n00b, you didn't:

1) specify which country's government you're talking about
2) posted a D option
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Re: Can the Government do nothing about the price of oil?

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 26 May 2008, 05:18:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lawnchair', 'B')yron above mentioned one thing a government can do. That is to invest in non-oil transit modes.


I hope they improve their track record. Amtrak is no great success story.
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Re: Can the Government do nothing about the price of oil?

Unread postby lawnchair » Mon 26 May 2008, 09:08:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lawnchair', 'B')yron above mentioned one thing a government can do. That is to invest in non-oil transit modes.


I hope they improve their track record. Amtrak is no great success story.


By what token? How profitable is the average interstate highway? The average municipal-owned airport?

Amtrak obviously in hamstrung, running on freight railroads that disdain their existence. But, German, French, and Japanese transit systems are great success stories.
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