[diemos]

With all of the recent attention given to preparing for the bleak future; stockpiling food, buying farmland, learning basic skills, etc. I was wondering how many people have decided to be anti-survivalists.

I'm sure that there are plenty of people who have no inclination to outlast the current civilization and when TSHTF plan to gracefully bow out and leave y'all to your Hobbsian struggle for survival.

Personally I'm grateful to have lived through the pinnacle of our civilization. To have had access to plenty and luxury and ease. To have enjoyed top notch medical care. To have traveled the world in style. To have had the luxury of devoting my life to the pursuit of knowledge. To never having known hunger or deprivation or want.

When the soviet union went down there was a spike in suicide among the formerly priviledged who couldn't or didn't want to adapt to the new world. Why should I being devoting my efforts to prolonging my existence in this craptastic future world that y'all envision? Why not simply enjoy the good times while they're here?

[Laurasia]

I take my enjoyment where I can; I'm enjoying lots of the fruits of modern civilization, believe me. But I'm also preparing as best I can, and am starting to hear the siren song of a different style of life.

Regards,

L.

[GeoJAP]

There are a few people whom I know on a professional and recreational basis who have openly mocked me for my thoughts on peak oil. They are the American fundamentalist Christian types, and they are very agitated right now with the thought of the future political landscape in the USA where they will lose power. When I heard their comments, I ceased communication with them because I knew they were a lost cause and not worthy of my own energy expended on such a distraction.

At the last family get together a few weeks ago, my extended family discussed oil (and politics) at the dinner table. I brought up several principles of peak oil, including preparation. 75% thought that there would be serious issues in the future, but only myself and my sister-in-law (my brother could not make it) had done any preparation. The other 25% thought we were "hoarding" and were being a little unreasonable. But these 25% are also Fundies, who think God will take care of them.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('diemos', 'W')hy not simply enjoy the good times while they're here?

[BigTex]

For anyone who has read "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy, you will recall the scene after the world ended in which the wife of the hero simply decided she didn't want to live in a ruined world, explained this to her husband and committed suicide.

It was described in such stark terms it was just as chilling as the rest of the book.

The fact that the hero understood his wife's reasons and didn't find her decision surprising was even more chilling.

(It happened early in the book. Don't worry, no spoiler.)

[sharewill]

There will be people there from all walks of life. I believe in God, and I study diligently -- and one of the things that caught my attention was the USA was not in the book of Revelation. Now how could the most melting pot nation, the one we the people nation, how could we not be in the book that clearly lays out the countries of the last days? Well, reading PO, and some other info on what is going on world wide, I understand. I don't base my faith on tradition, my relationship with God is real and personal. And I don't think we get to skip through this life, but I know He has a way for me to walk through whatever valleys of the shadow of death -- and that is what is looming on the horizon -- my preparation has been mainly spiritual, however, I did write three stories (out of 16) that describe the upcoming scenarios and how they will be dealt with. I am going to be re-reading them and definitely planning, as in doing what needs to be done. Thanks. Sharewill

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GeoJAP', 'T')here are a few people whom I know on a professional and recreational basis who have openly mocked me for my thoughts on peak oil. They are the American fundamentalist Christian types, and they are very agitated right now with the thought of the future political landscape in the USA where they will lose power. When I heard their comments, I ceased communication with them because I knew they were a lost cause and not worthy of my own energy expended on such a distraction.

At the last family get together a few weeks ago, my extended family discussed oil (and politics) at the dinner table. I brought up several principles of peak oil, including preparation. 75% thought that there would be serious issues in the future, but only myself and my sister-in-law (my brother could not make it) had done any preparation. The other 25% thought we were "hoarding" and were being a little unreasonable. But these 25% are also Fundies, who think God will take care of them.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'F')or anyone who has read "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy, you will recall the scene after the world ended in which the wife of the hero simply decided she didn't want to live in a ruined world, explained this to her husband and committed suicide.

It was described in such stark terms it was just as chilling as the rest of the book.

The fact that the hero understood his wife's reasons and didn't find her decision surprising was even more chilling.

(It happened early in the book. Don't worry, no spoiler.)

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'F')or anyone who has read "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy, you will recall the scene after the world ended in which the wife of the hero simply decided she didn't want to live in a ruined world, explained this to her husband and committed suicide.

It was described in such stark terms it was just as chilling as the rest of the book.

The fact that the hero understood his wife's reasons and didn't find her decision surprising was even more chilling.

(It happened early in the book. Don't worry, no spoiler.)

[Arkwright]

[align=center]None shall survive!
Especially those survivalists.
I'ts no fair to prepare when none is.
Damn You! You knew and didn't tell us!
Even though we wouldn't have believed
- its Your Fault that you didn't make us!
And then You dare to raise yourself to better position than rest of us!
You devious survivalists are to blame for our non-survival.
We are all to die, and the only way to show God repentance
is to make sure those survivalists won't escape The Judgement.
None shall survive!

Judas the Fatalistic Anti-Survivalist Survivalist

PS. Hmm.... You look like a survivalist, yes, I KNOW YOU are one.
If you want to know the one route out that my mob isn't quarding, that's 30 silver dollars. [/align]

[GeoJAP]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sharewill', '.')...He has a way for me to walk through whatever valleys of the shadow of death....

[GeoJAP]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arkwright', '[')align=center]None shall survive!
Especially those survivalists.
I'ts no fair to prepare when none is.
Damn You! You knew and didn't tell us!
Even though we wouldn't have believed
- its Your Fault that you didn't make us!
And then You dare to raise yourself to better position than rest of us!
You devious survivalists are to blame for our non-survival.
We are all to die, and the only way to show God repentance
is to make sure those survivalists won't escape The Judgement.
None shall survive!

Judas the Fatalistic Anti-Survivalist Survivalist

PS. Hmm.... You look like a survivalist, yes, I KNOW YOU are one.
If you want to know the one route out that my mob isn't quarding, that's 30 silver dollars. [/align]

[Cog]

Its not in my nature just to roll over and give up. Even if I were inclined to do so, I have others to who I owe my efforts to keep them alive no matter what type of world we end up in. What can of man would I be if I took the route of suicide and leave my family to fend for themselves?

Sounds like the route of a coward.

[diemos]

"At what point along your Hobbsian scale do you plan to exit?"

Don't know. But I suspect I'll know it when I see it.

Perhaps the first time I'm slightly inconvenienced.
Perhaps the first time I hit some guy over the head with a rock in order to steal his scrap of grilled rat.
Perhaps the first time I face having a tooth extracted with nothing but some rusty pliers and a shot of bourbon.

Or perhaps my instincts will win out and I'll fight and claw for life with all my might right to the very end.

All I do know for sure is that in any event I'll be dead at some point and survival is not enough. There has to be more to motivate me than just going on breathing for one more day.

I've been thinking more and more lately about what to do with the rest of my life that would have some real positive effect for the continued existance of civilization. Personal survival just isn't enough.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('diemos', 'P')ersonal survival just isn't enough.

[diemos]

44. No family except older relatives.

[Pops]

Is there no one you care enough for to try and help?

Again, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just asking...


I'm gonna move this to the Psy forum.

[BigTex]

I think it's safe to say that whatever one's personal plans may be, it would be prudent to build in a LOT of flexibility, since the future tends to play out in wildly unpredictable ways.

I have discussed this before, but pretend you are a person looking to the future in 1908 and imagining what the next 50 years will hold. From the 1908 perspective, do you think that even the most perceptive, intelligent and open minded person could have conceived of what the next 50 years would hold?

I don't think we can either.

BUT, I suspect that in 50 years humans will still get hungry about three times a day and get thirsty more often than that. So preparing for those needs is probably a risk-free proposition.

Some of this other stuff may be the equivalent of stockpiling stagecoach parts.

[diemos]

"Is there no one you care enough for to try and help? "

If you believe in die-off then in order for you to survive others must die. Even if you're not killing them directly with a gun or a rock you can only secure the resources necessary to keep you alive by denying them to others and ensuring their death.

I think we have a ways to go before that point but I still wrestle with the ethical question. By what right should I and my loved ones live if that survival can only be purchased with the death of others?

[Cog]

Why do you think your survival must be purchased at the death of others? If I store food and plants gardens now, how is that in any way causing death to others who haven't prepared? Much to the contrary. I will not be competing with those folks for scarce food and other resources.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('diemos', 'I')f you believe in die-off then in order for you to survive others must die.