[k_semler]

link presents state, territorial, and federal subsidies available to persons wishing to make use of alternative energies. If you wish to write off certain technologies to ease your transition, you can benefit financially. An example of this would be the exemption of photo voltaic cells from sales tax under Washington state law.

[Guest]

And New Mexico which is right in the middle of some of the best area for solar and wind offers jack shite.... except one byzantine net metering rule which was forced by federal policy...



-G

[DamianB]

http://www.endgame.org/energy.html

[Liamj]

Gee it'd be nice to have an updated international version. Anyone with the time & skills to spare want to set up a speadsheet or list for interested ppl to add data?

[Wildwell]

There’s some work done on external costs of transport/energy by the EU

http://www.externe.info/externpr.pdf

http://www.uic.asso.fr/html/environneme ... ary_en.pdf

more energy

http://www.uic.com.au/nip71.htm

http://reports.eea.eu.int/technical_rep ... AL_web.pdf

Road user subsidy in UK is £26bn excluding subsidy to car building and tax breaks for the road haulage and motor industry.

http://www.transport.intelynx.net/Cost% ... sport.html

[BabyPeanut]

I am wondering if there has been a trend lately to reduce fuel subsidiaries especially consumer fuels and especially in the US.

Seems that the price of wholescale gasoline has jumped up along with the price of crude oil much more closely this time.

http://peakoil.com/fortopic5396.html

Were subsidiaries holding back the price increases in the past or what?

Thanks,
BP

[Ferretlover]

Posted By:Bob Pisani
There are signs that emerging-market governments who provide gasoline and other energy subsidies to their citizens are under intense pressure to lower those subsidies, and this is causing some trepidation among stock market bulls. …
Subsidies under pressure

[joeltrout]

Pro: It will delay peak oil momentarily.

Especially after the Olympics and China stops subsidizing their oil. The demand bottom will fall out of the most of Asia. Chinese goods wont be making it to American shores because they will have to raise prices. American made goods will begin to flourish adding jobs to American citizens.

Americans are already making a lot of changes in their driving habits. That will only continue and soften demand.

I don't think it will deter peak oil and high prices for ever but will definitely stall the "collapse" for years maybe decades.

The world will sink into recession instead of dropping into a depression or worst.

joeltrout

[Twilight]

In some countries energy subsidies acted as a subsidy for population growth. The problem with removing them is it might be a little late in some places to avoid destabilisation. Naturally a correction of population to carrying capacity is inevitable in the long run, but voluntarily making the move now would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.

That is another side of the subsidy debate - what kind of immediate consequences we (not us in particular, but in general) can stomach right now. We are accustomed to a comforting time delay between what we ask for and the price others pay, which enables us to disassociate ourselves from the effects of our actions. In this case, our wishes could implode a country.

[joeltrout]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', 'I')n some countries energy subsidies acted as a subsidy for population growth. The problem with removing them is it might be a little late in some places to avoid destabilisation. Naturally a correction of population to carrying capacity is inevitable in the long run, but voluntarily making the move now would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.
That is another side of the subsidy debate - what kind of immediate consequences we (not us in particular, but in general) can stomach right now. We are accustomed to a comforting time delay between what we ask for and the price others pay, which enables us to disassociate ourselves from the effects of our actions. In this case, our wishes could implode a country.

[dohboi]

jt wrote: "American made goods"

What American made goods? Movies? Corn-based ethanol?

How many shoe factories are there in the US? Or factories that make just about anything that people need every day? I don't think people are realizing just how much of American manufacturing evaporated over the last 30 years. It takes time, materials, energy, skills...to recreate that infrastructure, all of which we have little of and will have less of with every passing week.

Many countries face open revolt if they even modify such subsidies. Most of these regimes would collapse quickly without them. They may have to drop subsidies, eventually, but they will avoid it at all costs.

And note that the US has subsidized oil and oil-based transportation for decades in myriad ways. When are we going to stop?

[joeltrout]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'W')hat American made goods?

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')oday's oil market is really the story of two different worlds: the industrialized West and Japan—where soaring prices are killing off demand; and the OPEC countries, China, and some other emerging markets—where still-rapid economic growth is outweighing any impact of higher prices. In many of these regions, including China and the Middle East, fuel is sold at a fraction of its world price, which encourages consumption. In Venezuela, for instance, gasoline goes for about 12¢ a gallon (BusinessWeek.com, 5/23/08).
In addition, the increasingly wealthy populations of these countries are just now buying cars and other energy-consuming machines and appliances. The IEA expects a sharp 494,000-barrel-per-day fall in North American oil consumption as airlines cancel flights and mothball planes, and car owners cut back on their driving. But this drop will be offset, the IEA thinks, by increases of 332,000 barrels per day in the Middle East—where a youthful driving culture is thriving on giveaway gasoline—and by 581,000 barrels per day in Asia. Latin America, too, is growing rapidly as a consumer, with an expected increase of 241,000 barrels per day. The agency doesn't foresee China or OPEC countries, which can afford to subsidize prices, initiating more than token price increases in the near future.

[SILENTTODD]

China's gas subsidies will come back to bite them big time.

As Herb Stein, Nixon's Council of Economic Advisers (and father of comedian Ben Stein) once wisely said "Whatever can't go on forever doesn't".

China is creating a huge distortion in pricing of fuel that sooner or later be unsustainable no matter how much they export.

A lot of Chinamen will be sitting in cars they cannot afford to fill up, even if they could find gas available.

[kublikhan]

India raised their prices as well:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')asoline prices vary across India, but the announcement Wednesday amounted to an increase of around 10 percent for gasoline and diesel. Consumers will pay about 50 rupees a liter for gasoline, or about $4.45 a gallon - well above the average $3.79 a gallon average that U.S. drivers are paying, according to the most recent figures from the U.S. Department of Energy. The moves follow similar price increases in Indonesia, Pakistan and Sri Lanka and are a recognition by governments that they can no longer shelter their populations from the spike in energy prices.

[Kingcoal]

Historically, subsidies are bad. At the end of the day, free markets decide prices, socialist economies can't find real prices because of their structure. The closest thing to a real price comes from a free market where supply and demand are allowed to let prices be set to their natural (real) value. There are no real free markets in this world, all of them are manipulated to some extent. However, some markets are much freer than others.

There was a book published in the 1920's called 'Socialism' which pointed out this flaw in socialist economies, which said that socialist economies are dependent on free market economies to set prices. I see nothing wrong with that observation. The world economy is basically the freest market in the world. Trying to protect a local economy from economic reality has historically been a bad idea. There is nothing wrong with trying to soften the blows or provide something of a safety net for citizens, but the realities have to be allowed to correct local economic conditions. China and India are fighting an uphill battle by trying to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

When the China/India corrections happen, a huge amount of pent up demand destruction will be unleashed. The longer they wait to allow corrections to take happen, the worse the crash. They undoubtedly will try to soften the blow, but their ability to do that diminishes the longer they wait. Oil prices will probably crash when that happens, but it will be temporary, maybe lasting only a couple of years and will be accompanied by lots of fallout world wide. Get out the popcorn, it should be good.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Drifter', 'L')ooks like demand destruction in China may slowly start to happen after the 2008 Olympics.

[Denny]

I think there should be a motion passed by the United Nations to end fuel subsidies by every member country as these lead to overcomsuption and extra CO2 emissions. They shold also remember to outlaw export tariffs as these have the same effect of lowering internal prices below world levels.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'I') think there should be a motion passed by the United Nations to end fuel subsidies by every member country as these lead to overcomsuption and extra CO2 emissions. They shold also remember to outlaw export tariffs as these have the same effect of lowering internal prices below world levels.

[Twilight]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'I') think there should be a motion passed by the United Nations to end fuel subsidies by every member country as these lead to overcomsuption and extra CO2 emissions. They shold also remember to outlaw export tariffs as these have the same effect of lowering internal prices below world levels.