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Know BEFORE You Post

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.
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Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby joeltrout » Tue 20 May 2008, 13:28:24

I am getting really frustrated with people commenting on the oil industry and they have no idea what they are talking about. Reading an article on the internet doesn't make someone an expert.

For example on the topic, "How much of the US has never been explored for oil?".

One person replied

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')All parts of the US have been explored electronically, from fly overs and satellite. This process gives a very good general indication of what is potentially available.


I am not picking on this person only because I have seen several instances where people gave totally wrong explanations about what actually happens in the oil industry.

If you are not in the oil industry then I would suggest reading some introduction books to the industry. Start with The Prize then read Money in the Ground then get a Non-Technical Guide to Petroleum Geology, Exploration, Drilling, & Production then read them all again.

I started a thread, Do You Work in the Oil Industry. Very few people actually work in the industry. I do realize many here are very knowledgeable about oil but many here are not as knowledgeable as they think. We all have lots to learn but we need to be careful what we are teaching.

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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby Cashmere » Tue 20 May 2008, 13:34:20

In all your words, Joel, I'm afraid I have missed your point.

Was the prior poster wrong?
Massive Human Dieoff <b>must</b> occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where <b>you</b> live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby Jack » Tue 20 May 2008, 13:35:46

You make a good point. Have you any ideas about ways to validate claims?

If someone says they were or are in the oil industry, is there an easy way to know if their claim is true?
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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby basil_hayden » Tue 20 May 2008, 13:36:58

So WTF is your point? Most don't want to admit they work in the industry. And since petroleum is everything, we ALL work in the industry to some extent. I happen to clean up the messes you people leave behind.

Was the post you quoted wrong? Absolutely not. It's all been explored with geophysical methods at the least.
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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby jato » Tue 20 May 2008, 13:37:45

I could say the same about the "Police State" type threads.
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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby firestarter » Tue 20 May 2008, 13:38:37

Thanks for the advice. I'll remember that if I need any oil related questions answered when my neighbor's 18 yr old comes home from his job at Jiffy Lube.
Civilization: the biosphere's skin disease
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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby joeltrout » Tue 20 May 2008, 13:39:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'I')n all your words, Joel, I'm afraid I have missed your point.

Was the prior poster wrong?


The post was incorrect because fly-overs and satellites are not widely used as ways to determine reserves in the US or other places. But the poster made it sound that the US has been explored because of those methods.

3-d seismic is the most widely known way to most accurately explore for oil and natural gas in the US. However it wasn't mentioned.

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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby Aaron » Tue 20 May 2008, 13:43:04

Off topic (kinda)

The low hanging fruit in America's oil basket isn't just well explored... it's gone.

Well almost gone anyway.

Today's satellite technology combined with 3d seismic & exploratory drilling technologies are very good at identifying potential deposits.

Does anyone believe that knocking on $130/bbl there is an oil producer anywhere who isn't scouring the planet for exploitable oil deposits?
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby basil_hayden » Tue 20 May 2008, 13:44:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joeltrout', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'I')n all your words, Joel, I'm afraid I have missed your point.

Was the prior poster wrong?


The post was incorrect because fly-overs and satellites are not widely used as ways to determine reserves in the US or other places. But the poster made it sound that the US has been explored because of those methods.

3-d seismic is the most widely known way to most accurately explore for oil and natural gas in the US. However it wasn't mentioned.

joeltrout


3-D seismic is used NOW, but there was a time before NOW, called the PAST, where aerial photos were used to search for potential oil-bearing formations, hand in hand with geologic quadrangle maps. I'm guessing you're up-to-date with current events in your field but lack the historical perspective.
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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby threadbear » Tue 20 May 2008, 13:51:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'O')ff topic (kinda)

The low hanging fruit in America's oil basket isn't just well explored... it's gone.

Well almost gone anyway.

Today's satellite technology combined with 3d seismic & exploratory drilling technologies are very good at identifying potential deposits.

Does anyone believe that knocking on $130/bbl there is an oil producer anywhere who isn't scouring the planet for exploitable oil deposits?


Why would the big producers bother? Huge outlay of money in the interest of what...finding a huge reserve somewhere that would drive the price of oil down? If I was in the oil industry, I wouldn't do anything to mess with the cash cow....and I'd take a good portion of my profits and get into oil futures to drive price higher.
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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby joeltrout » Tue 20 May 2008, 13:53:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '
')
3-D seismic is used NOW, but there was a time before NOW, called the PAST, where aerial photos were used to search for potential oil-bearing formations, hand in hand with geologic quadrangle maps. I'm guessing you're up-to-date with current events in your field but lack the historical perspective.


This is exactly my point. You CANNOT determine how much oil is in the ground from aerial photos. If you could then why do we use 3-d seismic now. And not all places have been shot with 3-d.

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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby roccman » Tue 20 May 2008, 13:54:38

I think PO.com "experts" should be fined and stripped of there expert stripe if two or more posters debunk their post.

I am tired of this crap too.

In my mind there are only 2 or 3 "experts" on PO.com and 2 are not even labeled as "experts".

Wake up people!!!!
"There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby roccman » Tue 20 May 2008, 13:56:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'O')ff topic (kinda)

The low hanging fruit in America's oil basket isn't just well explored... it's gone.

Well almost gone anyway.

Today's satellite technology combined with 3d seismic & exploratory drilling technologies are very good at identifying potential deposits.

Does anyone believe that knocking on $130/bbl there is an oil producer anywhere who isn't scouring the planet for exploitable oil deposits?


The Uintah Basin in Utah is one of the largest least explored regions in the lower 48 states.

Vernal is a BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

town...for good reason.
"There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Tue 20 May 2008, 14:44:17

*cough ground penetrating RADAR*
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby Aaron » Tue 20 May 2008, 14:56:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joeltrout', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'I')n all your words, Joel, I'm afraid I have missed your point.

Was the prior poster wrong?


The post was incorrect because fly-overs and satellites are not widely used as ways to determine reserves in the US or other places. But the poster made it sound that the US has been explored because of those methods.

3-d seismic is the most widely known way to most accurately explore for oil and natural gas in the US. However it wasn't mentioned.

joeltrout


3-D seismic is used NOW, but there was a time before NOW, called the PAST, where aerial photos were used to search for potential oil-bearing formations, hand in hand with geologic quadrangle maps. I'm guessing you're up-to-date with current events in your field but lack the historical perspective.


Well that changes everything!

The past... who knew?

Tell us more about this "past" you mentioned... sounds facinating.

Uintah Basin

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a') mean of 60 million barrels of oil


link
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')And not all places have been shot with 3-d.

You just floating that idea, or is there some source you wish to quote?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hy would the big producers bother?

Oh I dunno... make more money perhaps?

Naw you're right... they are probably good and don't really want higher profits.

What was I thinking?
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby BigTex » Tue 20 May 2008, 15:06:46

joeltrout,

I would like to see you post more items that make use of your industry experience.

In particular, being able to take a technical matter and offer a concise layman's explanation is always helpful.

Rockdoc doesn't post here as much as he used to, but I always enjoyed reading his posts about the nuts and bolts of exploration and production.
:)
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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby KillTheHumans » Tue 20 May 2008, 15:17:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joeltrout', 'I') am getting really frustrated with people commenting on the oil industry and they have no idea what they are talking about.


Its been going on for years now, you would think its nearly a prerequisite for joining based on the frequency with which it occurs. Others have made the same plea....

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joeltrout', '
')
Reading an article on the internet doesn't make someone an expert.


Of course it does. Go read the little titles by peoples usernames....they read Wiki, they are thereafter labelled "experts". It sometimes correlates with a high post count as well, if "experts" disagree, I think post count is the tie breaker.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joeltrout', '
')
I started a thread, Do You Work in the Oil Industry. Very few people actually work in the industry.


Actually, LOTS of people work in the industry, they just don't hang out here. I've suggested to coworkers they try a time or two, on the grounds that people who actually know something will improve the conversation around here, but the wild giggling which follows such a request does not make me hopeful.
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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby roccman » Tue 20 May 2008, 15:53:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')
Uintah Basin

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a') mean of 60 million barrels of oil


link


Hmmm...

Call any hotel in Vernal today and see if you can get a room for tonight...this week....or next.

Maybe Haliburton has not read that credible fact sheet from our buddies at USGS (2002) that also predict peak oil in 2041.
Last edited by roccman on Tue 20 May 2008, 15:55:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby joeltrout » Tue 20 May 2008, 15:54:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joeltrout', '
')And not all places have been shot with 3-d.


You just floating that idea, or is there some source you wish to quote?



Are you serious??? Please tell me you are doing this for the benefit of others and not yourself.

Many places haven't been shot. Companies cannot shot seismic unless they have either a seismic permit or a lease. If they do not have permission then it is called seismic trespass or mineral trespass aka Against the Law. Not all of the US is available for leasing. Like mentioned above national parks, residential areas, national forest that prohibit drilling, etc... Even some large landowners that also own mineral rights do not allow drilling.

My source is the company I work for is the 2nd largest mineral owner in the state of California 400,000+ acres and 70% or more has NOT been shot with seismic.

Not all sources are internet articles.

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Re: Know BEFORE You Post

Unread postby HEADER_RACK » Tue 20 May 2008, 16:04:34

Sieismic surveying will not tell you if there is oil underneath. The only way to find that out is to drill a well. Siesmic does increase your odds you will find oil.
We found more oil in the 60's than we ever have and that was before 3d surveying.
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