[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'A')nd . . . who's "we"? Many people are already down to beans and rice. Homeless people are being found dead, of malnutrition, exposure, and other bad things. Elderly people are having to decide between drug therapy and food. Sick people are dying because they don't have health insurance or can't get the drugs or treatments they need.

[Heineken]

Dream on, Cube. The American underclass is big and growing fast. You're in denial. (Not an altogether bad strategy, actually.)

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'D')ream on, Cube. The American underclass is big and growing fast. You're in denial. (Not an altogether bad strategy, actually.)

[MrBill]

you look good in blue, cube...

[SpringCreekFarm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'D')ream on, Cube. The American underclass is big and growing fast. You're in denial. (Not an altogether bad strategy, actually.)

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'y')ou look good in blue, cube...

[MrBill]

cube, a long time ago a politician friend of mine got into hot water by suggesting that "6% unemployment in Canada was at or near full employment."

Of course, the Media and those out of work crucified him due to him basically stating the obvious: not everyone is looking for work; some are between work; some are unable to work; some have given up looking for work; some are on long-term disability; some are enjoying the U.I. ski team; etc.

Any time a politician utters a truism (ask Obama) they risk the chance of being branded insensitive to the problems of others even as we know that living standards for the vast majority have been rising, and as you suggest for many times have never been better.

Sure that may not last forever. Especially against a backdrop of post peak oil resource depletion; rising inflation expectations; immigration issues; environmental degradation; and population growth, but for the time being we are still relatively well-off in comparison with five-sixths of humanity.

That does not mean that living standards will never fall, and there will not be wider spread misery, for those that are unlucky, unprepared or both. Even at the peak of our economic development there have been winners and unfortunate losers. So yes, we (collectively) have a lot of fat to cut, but we will also lose some bone and muscle!

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'c')ube, a long time ago a politician friend of mine got into hot water by suggesting that "6% unemployment in Canada was at or near full employment."

Of course, the Media and those out of work crucified him due to him basically stating the obvious: not everyone is looking for work; some are between work; some are unable to work; some have given up looking for work; some are on long-term disability; some are enjoying the U.I. ski team; etc.

Any time a politician utters a truism (ask Obama) they risk the chance of being branded insensitive to the problems of others even as we know that living standards for the vast majority have been rising, and as you suggest for many times have never been better.

Sure that may not last forever. Especially against a backdrop of post peak oil resource depletion; rising inflation expectations; immigration issues; environmental degradation; and population growth, but for the time being we are still relatively well-off in comparison with five-sixths of humanity.

That does not mean that living standards will never fall, and there will not be wider spread misery, for those that are unlucky, unprepared or both. Even at the peak of our economic development there have been winners and unfortunate losers. So yes, we (collectively) have a lot of fat to cut, but we will also lose some bone and muscle!

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'y')ou look good in blue, cube...

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'B')ut the disposable part of the income is narrowing quickly.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'B')ut the disposable part of the income is narrowing quickly.

[threadbear]

The standard of living in Canada is dropping, Mr.Bill. My parents lived a life of decadent plenty, in comparison. Housing was cheap, energy was cheap. My mother didn't have to work. They managed with 4 kids on a military salary. They'd have to be clearing well over 150 grand to accomplish this today.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')'ve never seen so much as a public argument during the ten years since I moved back here. They are the most polite barbarians in the world, I guess.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'T')he standard of living in Canada is dropping, Mr.Bill. My parents lived a life of decadent plenty, in comparison. Housing was cheap, energy was cheap. My mother didn't have to work. They managed with 4 kids on a military salary. They'd have to be clearing well over 150 grand to accomplish this today.

[shakespear1]

Perhaps the Spitzer take down has something to offer in terms of understanding what may be happening to pension funds.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'Predatory Lenders' Partner in Crime
How the Bush Administration Stopped the States From Stepping In to Help Consumers
By Eliot Spitzer
Thursday, February 14, 2008; Page A25

Several years ago, state attorneys general and others involved in consumer protection began to notice a marked increase in a range of predatory lending practices by mortgage lenders. Some were misrepresenting the terms of loans, making loans without regard to consumers' ability to repay, making loans with deceptive "teaser" rates that later ballooned astronomically, packing loans with undisclosed charges and fees, or even paying illegal kickbacks. These and other practices, we noticed, were having a devastating effect on home buyers. In addition, the widespread nature of these practices, if left unchecked, threatened our financial markets.

Even though predatory lending was becoming a national problem, the Bush administration looked the other way and did nothing to protect American homeowners. In fact, the government chose instead to align itself with the banks that were victimizing consumers….')

Note the date on the what he wrote.

More here

Financial Sense

[SpringCreekFarm]

I've said for years that my generation would not receive their pensions because the baby boomers will get it all. Not so sure that is going to happen either considering recent events and the peak oil thing looking us in the eye.

I'm setup to receive a pension from my job but the time I retire is listed as 2031, the year I reach the age of 65. Not so sure I'll be getting that one! Same with old age and Canada pension into which I've poured money all my working life. I, fortunately, have not been out of work a day since 1992.

So it goes. I guess I'll have to settle for living off the homestead. Darn.

[catbox]

I think for many people, they are seeing rock bottom. As my mother in law has informed me...as she helps run a center for homeless people in tacoma, WA...5 years ago...she saw mostly homeless people who had it rough due to drugs and drinking, etc....Now she's seeing whole families going through the system who at one time had a house, jobs, car, and were "middle class" and just had some medical or financial trouble and are now homeless. It's actually quite sobering to here my mother in law talk about it....I was never that interested before. My wife works with seniors who at once, maybe not too long ago had everything as well......now they can't make ends meet and she helps them find services. She says the waiting list for these services is insane!

Also, what is scary to me is all these kids I work with in the skate, surf and snowboard industry... who I try and get some PO understanding into...are in debt already...here we have young adults and they spend everything they make on paying off their cards and rent. You should see them when the end of the month comes around...not pretty. So I figure there are plenty of others out there like them. I think rock bottom is just around the corner for many....and pensions are not even on their radar...or mine for that matter.


cb

[Roy]

I read somewhere that the British government says that civil behavior ends when people miss 4 consecutive meals.

Back on topic, my father worked for the US Border Patrol for 25 odd years, and has been on full retirement since 1996. I'm not sure how much he makes, but I believe it is close to his salary when he left and he gets COL adjustments as well. He's got a nice house in Florida, a boat, motorcycle, and thinks I'm crazy... I say "Dad, get in line". Those old paradigms die hard I guess.

Last Sunday, I met a man who offered some free firewood on freecycle. His home is in an exclusive subdivision near Lake Lure NC.

As I cut up and loaded a fallen oak tree from his yard, we started talking. He told me he was a welder from Long Island and had spent 30 year working for Enteman's Bakery. Now he's retired with a nice house on top of a mountain... I'd say he's got it pretty good. A blue collar guy who sold his house in 2005 in LINY, for probably many times what it was really worth. He got out just in time and admitted as much to me.

I've come to the conclusion that retirement is a phenomenon of the baby boomers. Men with blue-collar occupations can afford what I would call luxury retirements. Like MrBill said above, that might be one-time phenomenon. Historically it's an aberration.

My generation, other than a relatively small percentage who made high incomes, will not likely have a chance at their golden years of retirement on a beach or mountaintop somewhere. Inflation is destroying my retirement savings faster than I can accumulate them. And with the way the .gov is borrowing money now, I don't see inflation slowing down going forward. Monetary theory says that every dollar of interest paid on a debt in a money system must be created and added to that system. Debts getting larger, interest getting larger = more $$ created. More $$ chasing either a constant or dwindling supply of goods = inflation.

While my goal of $3 million sounds like enough to fund a modest lifestyle for 20 years, by the time I'm 60, if the USD exists at all, I imagine that 3 mil will be worth less than half what its worth now.

Ergo, I've decided my best retirement plan will be security. A paid off property capable of producing useful things, such as food and firewood, and providing me with a warm and dry place to sleep. Perhaps that 3 mil will keep the tax man off my back?

Guys that make lots of money, say the upper 5% in the US, will tell you that the economy is fine, there is no recession etc. For them this is not. Wealth in this country is being transferred from the bottom 95% to the top 5% and has been since free trade become the idea du jour. Globalism is turning America into another country where the 1% own 80% of the wealth. That's great if you're part of the 1%.

I wouldn't be surprised to see pension funds like my father's go broke. I have read numerous stories linked on this site showing how many pension funds, in a quest for ROR to keep up with inflation and a demographic bubble (baby boomers) have taken on risky real-estate or derivative investments.

I'm afraid we're all on our own, particularly people my age (40) and younger. Social security, if I get it, probably won't pay my grocery bill by the time I'm 65.

Reading and studying the issues that face us, its hard to entertain cornucopian visions of an idealistic retirement for myself. No matter how much money I can save on my above average income. Inflation is making sure of that.

Therefore, my long investments are tangible things. Paper's value is arbitrary, and I have absolutely no say in determining its value. The government and the markets decide that, whether it hurts me or not.

Conversely, what value could be placed on a warm home with plenty to eat? Going forward I see the value of those things increasing compared to the value of vacation homes, fancy cars, and stacks of paper/digits in an electronic account.

Yes, the pensions of millions ARE at risk, thanks to many factors such as inflation, peak oil, climate change, over population, and on and on. Worse, when the herd awakens, the risk to pension funds will be even greater than it is now. [imagines millions of boomers attempting to cash in their IRAs and 401ks -- more sellers than buyers -- not pretty for asset values]

[cube]

Every retirement system (401K, pension, social security, etc...) is based on the idea that the person standing in the back of the line pays for the person in the front. One of the great lies of any retirement plan where people pay money into the system is the belief you are taking control of your future by being "independent". The argument is simple enough, you put $10 in some investment today and in the future it will grow to $30. You get to collect the fruits of your labor without having to rely on anyone else.

Sounds great right? Unfortunately the reality is, the young takes care of the old no matter how you slice and dice it. The old can never be "independent" of the young. When you collect your retirement and *hopefully* sell that investment for more than what you paid for who's going to buy it? ---> a younger person. And here's the final question. What if that younger person is economically less well off than yourself?
///
Make no mistake I have nothing against the young financially taking care of the old. I just want to eliminate this silly idea in America that you can make yourself "independent" of the world's future problems by investing in the stock market. If the next generation falls on hard times then the old / we will share the same fate too. There is no way around it.

[Heineken]

One of the reasons I retired so early (age 50) was to start my pension and get as much as I can out of it while I can. Since I don't expect it to last. It will not last; either that, or it will continue and its purchasing power will drop to almost nothing.