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$4 Gas price: The end of an American Era?

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$4 Gas price: The end of an American Era?

Postby patience » Tue 20 May 2008, 08:23:58

It is the end of the cheap gas era all right. My wife and I speculate now and then how life will change where we live, and try to visualize what our area will look like.

Her take on it is that we will become like Russia after their economic collapse. That might be a good analogy. I focus more on details, such as what effect expensive fuels will have on the local community. I expect a lot of localization, probably similiar to the US in the 1920's to 1930's, where local food and locally produced goods can again compete well. That period was one of extended families living together, backyard gardens, and if you lived in a rural area, of only weekly trips to town. Travel existed then, but on a much lesser scale, and long trips were done by train, or ocean liner.

I think we can look to history to see what life may be like in the future, regressing further as energy becomes dearer.
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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby MarkJ » Tue 20 May 2008, 09:23:17

If low and middle income households cut back on expensive dinners, movies, digital cable, pay-per-view, high speed internet and daily purchases of beer, cigarettes, lottery tickets, scratch-off tickets, fast food, junk food, soda etc, they'd have money for vacation and fuel for their cars, trucks, boats, snowmobiles, waverunners, quads and motorcycles.

Myself, family, friends and many of our customers make much more money than our parents, have more efficient homes and drive more efficient vehicles, so fuel costs aren't a vacation killer.
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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby ohanian » Tue 20 May 2008, 09:23:46

I predict that in the future
2nd hand SUV will be dirt cheap
They will be so cheap that even poor people can afford to buy the biggest SUV
In fact, poor people can afford only it.
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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby MarkJ » Tue 20 May 2008, 10:02:46

We're still waiting for decent inexpensive used full sized vans, trucks, 4WD trucks and SUVs. Anything decent and reasonably priced is grabbed up pretty quick here in the North country.

Many of the low income people we see drive used mid-sized or smaller cars that they either buy with cash or purchase through the buy-here-pay-here cars dealers. Total cost of ownership per mile is still pretty low due to the low purchase price, minimum insurance, minimum maintenance and repairs.

When I was selling a lot of used cars, the low income customers would often buy used cars outright with their tax/EIC refunds with plenty of money to spare.
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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby kokoda » Tue 20 May 2008, 10:32:25

I hope it is an end to an era.

An era of wastefulness.

The US consumes 25% of the world's oil. This doesn't count the oil used by China, Korea and other nations to produce goods for the American market.
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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby Cog » Tue 20 May 2008, 11:03:44

$4/gal gasoline is not the end of the world but it has cut into disposable income. In an informal poll of the people I work with, folks are cutting back on optional trips and spending. This will drag down the economy in the next quarter. As for me, I'm paying down debt as rapidly as possible and the high prices have fuel has hurt this effort somewhat.

@$5 gallon gasoline, if I want to continue to pay down debt, I will have to look at alternative ways to commute for both myself and wife.
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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby Kingcoal » Tue 20 May 2008, 11:29:40

There's always the train. Amtrak is a great way to see the country. To bad they keep getting their funding cut.
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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby SpringCreekFarm » Tue 20 May 2008, 11:42:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'T')here's always the train. Amtrak is a great way to see the country. To bad they keep getting their funding cut.


Hopefully at some point the trains will get their funding back, plus more. It only makes sense. If PO has hit the mainstream, then it will only be a matter of time before we start hearing of this. That's about as optimistic as I can get.
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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby nocar » Tue 20 May 2008, 11:49:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')mtrak is a great way to see the country. To bad they keep getting their funding cut.


Before the automobile era, railroads did not need extra funding, they made money. Of course, when the era of cheap oil arrive, and particularly since people only compared the train ticket price with the gasoline cost for the trip, railroads had no chance to compete.

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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby nocar » Tue 20 May 2008, 11:49:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')mtrak is a great way to see the country. To bad they keep getting their funding cut.


Before the automobile era, railroads did not need extra funding, they made money. Of course, when the era of cheap oil arrive, and particularly since people only compared the train ticket price with the gasoline cost for the trip, railroads had no chance to compete.

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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby Kingcoal » Tue 20 May 2008, 19:17:58

Passenger service on trains has always had slim profit margins. However, in contrast, roads and highways have never had any profit margins. Of course you can argue that highways and roads produce GDP, which is a form of profit margin, but so is the benefit of train travel. Trains are fantastically efficient in their use of fuel. They can be powered by diesel, electricity and coal or wood, if it comes to that. Trains are the wave of the future, unfortunately, we didn't seem to realize that when we had plenty of cheap oil to rebuild our rail systems.
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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby KaiserCesar06 » Tue 20 May 2008, 22:55:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohanian', 'I') predict that in the future
2nd hand SUV will be dirt cheap
They will be so cheap that even poor people can afford to buy the biggest SUV
In fact, poor people can afford only it.


I don't know, SUV's could be pretty cozy homes to some.
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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby heroineworshipper » Tue 20 May 2008, 23:59:34

It is the end of an American era, the era of wondering how Europeans dealt with $4 gas for all of the 80's & 90's. Now we know it's just a matter of printing money.

Global warming only costs money for the people paying the taxes, but not for the tax collectors, heh, heh, cha-ching.
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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby Denny » Wed 21 May 2008, 00:38:54

$4 a gallon gas is not the end of the family camping trip. Maybe the end of the 1,500 mile camping trip, but you can go 200-300 miles from any American city and find all kinds of decent vacation spots. So, do that math, 600 miles return trip at 20 mpg = $120 outlay.

Still, its sad that the cross country treks are going to be so pricey. I will always recall with happiness one we took with our kids to San Francisco in 1992. A memory to treasure. And, I don't think it cost us much more than $300 in gas.

I guess the original "Vacation" movie will become a classic. Future generations will ponder in amazement that 6,000 pounds of car and family and gear could be driven so far by most everybody. But, that damn "Truckster" vehicle was some ugly! Maybe that is what spawned the SUV.
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Re: $4 Gas: The End of an American Era?

Postby bodigami » Wed 21 May 2008, 15:23:50

"$4 Gas: The End of an American Era?"
maybe

$40, hell yes! ...also the end of USA, my crystal ball says that it will collapse like the URSS... with individual states becoming countries, while on economical collapse. :) :lol:
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