[ANewHuman]

What are some ideas you guys have to generate electric power for a rural property.

Here are the ones I know of available to us

-Solar PV
-Wind
-Earth Battery ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_battery )
-Steam generator
-Micro hydro


And the ways to store the intermittent power

-Lead acid batteries
-Super capacitors (extreme cost)
-Gravity (ie moving water into the air, or large rocks, etc)

Anyone have some experience storing power with gravity or capacitors?

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ANewHuman', 'W')hat are some ideas you guys have to generate electric power for a rural property.

Here are the ones I know of available to us

-Solar PV
-Wind
-Earth Battery ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_battery )
-Steam generator
-Micro hydro


And the ways to store the intermittent power

-Lead acid batteries
-Super capacitors (extreme cost)
-Gravity (ie moving water into the air, or large rocks, etc)

Anyone have some experience storing power with gravity or capacitors?

[NiKfUrY69]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ANewHuman', 'A')nd the ways to store the intermittent power

-Lead acid batteries
-Super capacitors (extreme cost)
-Gravity (ie moving water into the air, or large rocks, etc)

Anyone have some experience storing power with gravity or capacitors?

[RonMN]

A high quality wip for your slaves should come in handy...I bought two (just in case)

[kpeavey]

You''ve already listed the most likely and available technology available to the regular joe.
I'd put wind and solar PV at the top of the list
-requires no fuel
-available on the market
-expensive, but still within reach

For storage, batteries are the easiest
-will last a few years
-available on the market
-expensive, but still within reach

[WisJim]

PV panels have a long potential life (some of ours are 25+ years old and still working as they should), and a good windgenerator does too (ours was built in the 1940s, used for decades, rebuilt and used by us for almost 30 years, and ready for decades more), although a wind generator will require more maintenance. A steam engine will require not only maintenance but regular monitoring and adjusting while in use. Micro hydro needs maintenance, but it is often simple, like cleaning debris out of the water inlet screen, greasing bearings, etc. Lead acid batteries are delicate in some ways, and need some basic care, and then they will also last for years. I would suggest that if a person is considering using any of these technologies, that they start now, even in a small way, to learn the day-to-day details of taking care of the equipment and keeping everything running to produce the power that you need (want).

It's a bit like planning to grow your own food--by the time you need to do it, it is likely to be too late to actually have time to learn to do it.

[smartyram]

I was thinking of using a solar panel and a vertical wind mill to generate power which will be used to generate hydrogen through electrolysis. The hydrogen can then be stored and fed to a hydrogen fuel cell to generate power as required. Storing energy as H2 seems very efficient and economic compared to batteries, etc.

I have just started to explore H2 fuel cells not sure about the cost.

[pedalling_faster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ANewHuman', 'A')nd the ways to store the intermittent power

-Lead acid batteries
-Super capacitors (extreme cost)
-Gravity (ie moving water into the air, or large rocks, etc)

Anyone have some experience storing power with gravity or capacitors?

[smartyram]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smartyram', '.').. Storing energy as H2 seems very efficient and economic compared to batteries, etc. ....

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smartyram', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smartyram', '.').. Storing energy as H2 seems very efficient and economic compared to batteries, etc. ....

[WisJim]

Fuel cells vs lead acid batteries--I researched this a while back, hoping that when costs of fuel cells come down, if ever, that a hydrogen generator powered by wind and PVs, along with hydrogen storage and a fuel cell, would be a viable alternative to my lead acid batteries. What I found is that fuel cells aren't any more efficient than lead acid batteries, if even that efficient. They are appealing in transportation because of quick refueling, but weight and speed of refilling of tanks doesn't matter in a home-power situation, so fuel cells aren't an alternative to batteries for me, even if you ignore the price of them, and the cost of storage.

And a reminder to whoever was considering a vertical axis wind generator--remember that you still have to get it up in the air (100 feet or so is a good height) so it is up in good winds, and that is a problem with vertical axis machines. Also, vertical axis machines were patented before horizontal axis machines, and they still haven't made any that work as well as the horizontal machines.

[kjmclark]

You could also use a woodgas rig with a regular generator. If you have a woodlot available, or even trash wood like willow or cottonwood, you're set. This requires a bit of tinkering, since AFAIK no one sells pyrolysis equipment, but it isn't too hard. Much cheaper than an equivalent capacity solar or wind system, and the unburned wood is your storage.

[SolarDave]

Solar + Ultracapacitor (small scale)

Solar Ultracapacitor LED Lighting System (small)

And the list in the first post left out my favorite power source

[ANewHuman]

I don't like the idea of lead acid batteries because they will last at best around 10 years, most likely 5. So if you have PV/Wind that lasts 25-50 years you don't have very much storage around to go with that longevity. No doubt batteries in most instances are one of the best ways to go, but if you foresee a future without being able to rebuy batteries when yours break.......

You can't make decent lead acid batteries either.

Problem with water is you need 4000 liters of it at a 10m height for only 50Wh. You can easily get a smallish lead acid battery which has 1200Wh or higher.

I like the idea of a renewable hydro type system though. A million liter capacity stored 10m above a turbine, with a million liter tank at bottom. Get wind pumps to bring it back to the surface. It could be closed so no water leaks and just keeps refilling itself. The hydro system just runs 24hours a day and the flow could be adjusted to match power output.

Have capacitors acting as a buffer between the hydro and home system to buffer out any irregularities, would be nice.

[BigTex]

A small gas generator such as one of the Hondas is a nice insurance policy.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ANewHuman', 'I') don't like the idea of lead acid batteries because they will last at best around 10 years, most likely 5. So if you have PV/Wind that lasts 25-50 years you don't have very much storage around to go with that longevity. No doubt batteries in most instances are one of the best ways to go, but if you foresee a future without being able to rebuy batteries when yours break.......

You can't make decent lead acid batteries either.

[BigTex]

What about the "phone company batteries" you read about here and there that are supposed to last 50 years?

What's up with that?

[yesplease]

Tex, the best battery is the heaviest battery. At least for stationary apps, and if it's never discharged, or only shallowly discharged, it'll last for a long time...

[WisJim]

I have been using lead acid batteries in a wind generator/PV system since the mid-1970s. I started out with used telephone company batteries that were about 10 years old, then got a second and third set of similar age. When we moved after using them for 12 years or more, they were still usable, but showing their age, so we took them to a salvage yard and got many times what we had paid for them. After we moved and reinstalled our wind/PV system, we used another set of used telephone batteries before buying a set of brand new forklift style batteries. The last set of telephone company batteries that I had were over 25 years old when we quit using them, and my new batteries are about 10 years old now, and still look and act new. I expect them to last another 10 or 15 years with the kind of care that I give them--never let the electrolyte get low, and never let them discharge below 80& of a full charge for long. I do have the option of using grid power to recharge if it is calm and cloudy for a long time, now, but we can easily live with the amount of power that we generate, even with charging the Comutacar, lawnmower, and electric bicycle batteries from the system most of the time.

Someone inexperienced in taking care of batteries might only get a few years from an inexpensive set, but after learning what to do and not do, and actually doing it, you can then buy a set of really good batteries that will last for decades.

I have had friends use Edison (nickel iron) batteries with their off-grid systems, but I think that all of them have since gone with lead acid batteries. The Edisons have a long life, but they require a much higher voltage than their nominal voltage to be fully charged, and it can cause problems with the rest of the electrical system. They also have a high internal resistance which can limit the maximum current drawn from them without overheating and damaging them. Old Edison cells are sometimes available that might be 30 to 50 years old and still usable, after cleaning and changing the electrolyte. They are also not as efficient as lead acid batteries in their charge/discharge cycle.

[Starvid]

Shares in a nuclear/hydro generating company.