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THE Mexico Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby TheDude » Sat 17 May 2008, 16:34:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ASHINGTON -- Mexican Energy Secretary Georgina Kessel's warning to the Mexican Congress last week sounded ominous: If legislators did not approve reforms within the oil sector, the country would suffer a "severe energy crisis" within a decade.

That's probably an understatement.

Mexico's oil production is rapidly declining. The Cantarell oil field, one of the world's largest, is responsible for almost two-thirds of Mexico's production. In 2004, it brought up 2.1 million barrels a day; today it produces only half that. Unless new sources are found, Mexico -- up until last year the second-largest supplier to the United States -- will become a net oil importer by the year 2018.

For some countries, being a net oil importer is no big deal. But for Mexico, oil represents the single largest amount of revenue for the federal government -- about 40 percent. This looming "energy crisis" would be felt more than just at the pump. It would be across the board, impacting financial, social and political sectors as well.


Washington Post

The government eased up on taxes to Pemex back in September, too. Calderon is currently proposing giving them a break on exploration in the Gulf and in the Chicontepec basin. Wonder how far they can go - or if increased crude prices will counterbalance loss of revenue to the government.

Interesting analysis of the situation in Mexico: Foreign Policy In Focus | Mexico's Battle over Oil
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby PeakingAroundtheCorner » Sat 17 May 2008, 16:47:48

Oops! Posted this in the wrong thread.
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby aldente » Sat 17 May 2008, 18:01:16

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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby Twilight » Sat 17 May 2008, 18:09:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'W')onder how far they can go - or if increased crude prices will counterbalance loss of revenue to the government.

For a time it might, there is always a point of "peak profitability", but if Mexico ceases to be a net exporter within ten years, the question is academic. The bottom line is with loss of energy exports, the government will be limited to taxing its own citizens. That is going to be a problem.
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby shortonoil » Sat 17 May 2008, 18:25:30

Twilight said:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or a time it might, there is always a point of "peak profitability", but if Mexico ceases to be a net exporter within ten years, the question is academic. The bottom line is with loss of energy exports, the government will be limited to taxing its own citizens. That is going to be a problem.

Having spent considerable time in Mexico, I would say the result of that problem would be that the country would come apart. It has always been about 1 bottle of tequila away from a revolution.
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby eastbay » Sat 17 May 2008, 20:16:48

2018.... HAHAHA :lol: That just kills me!!!

Mexico will probably become a net energy importer within four years... maybe earlier at the rate their production is falling.

Then they won't be able to pay for imported corn even if there was any... which there probably won't.

The gangsters will then have full control in Mexico. Save them the cost and hassle of conducting elections.
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby Novus » Sat 17 May 2008, 20:41:32

You can't run a country the size of Mexico with Gangsters as it would collapse into something like Somalia. Mexico if it is to survive in any form will need to become a dictatorship and a brutal one at that.
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby eastbay » Sat 17 May 2008, 20:57:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'Y')ou can't run a country the size of Mexico with Gangsters as it would collapse into something like Somalia. Mexico if it is to survive in any form will need to become a dictatorship and a brutal one at that.


I can see that happening as well. Either way, it won't be pretty and democracy won't hold. Their days are numbered... in fact, they can begin a date countdown to utter chaos starting with, say, 1,200.

Tomorrow will be day 1,199.
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby aldente » Sat 17 May 2008, 21:11:49

What if North America becomes brutal? Good to see you around Novus by the way, I rarely post here anymore but it is worth to re-visit this forum any time.

We try to grasp the moment as of where the switch is flipped from sufficient liquid fuel supply to insufficient. A remarkable moment AKA PO in general terms.

The rest is 'Makulatur' as known in German language, business as usual so to say (mere reflection of the ongoing events).

To disregard does not mean to to disobey by any means or does it?


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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 18 May 2008, 04:32:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', '
')Mexico if it is to survive in any form will need to become a dictatorship and a brutal one at that.


I'm sure Chavez is willing to moonlight for Mexico.
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby TheDude » Sun 18 May 2008, 05:21:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'W')onder how far they can go - or if increased crude prices will counterbalance loss of revenue to the government.

For a time it might, there is always a point of "peak profitability", but if Mexico ceases to be a net exporter within ten years, the question is academic. The bottom line is with loss of energy exports, the government will be limited to taxing its own citizens. That is going to be a problem.


Maybe Calderon's policies of allowing outside companies some involvement will staunch the bleeding a bit. Certainly he must be aware of the ramifications of the country going into decline. I bet someone will have something to say about the SPP, too.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '2')018.... HAHAHA Laughing That just kills me!!!

Mexico will probably become a net energy importer within four years... maybe earlier at the rate their production is falling.


The figure I usually see bandied about for the US is 200 kb loss of imports per year, thus show's over in 2014.
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby eastbay » Sun 18 May 2008, 10:40:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '2')018.... HAHAHA Laughing That just kills me!!!

Mexico will probably become a net energy importer within four years... maybe earlier at the rate their production is falling.


The figure I usually see bandied about for the US is 200 kb loss of imports per year, thus show's over in 2014.


Yes, of course we all read that as well as the 10 year estimate too, But my math shows that if their domestic production is 2.9 mbpd and the loss is 200,000/yr they'll arrive at a domestic production rate of 2.1 mbpd in four years which just happens to be what they now consume.

But who knows.... maybe 'something' will happen to slow the decline in production, but don't hold your breath. 2Q12 seems to be their magic moment.
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby TheDude » Sun 18 May 2008, 11:35:19

Jeffery Brown mentioned in a TOD article on Cantarell a guy named David Shields who's written a couple of books on Pemex; found some excellent pieces Googling his name tonight, like MEXICO: Pemex Oozes Corruption.

Note the projection of Shields' Brown mentions, that Mexico would be almost done exporting by last December. Wonder what happened - Calderon put the brakes on somehow.
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby eastbay » Sun 18 May 2008, 12:08:59

I remember reading the TOD article and graphs when they came out. Pretty bleak analysis. Funny side note.... did you see how the discussion went straight to corn?

Anyhow, most of us here read the 'expert' predictions all the time, and regarding oil they're almost always seriously wrong. Generally applying common sense is a better approach.

Sometimes it's also better to simply focus on the basics. Look at where Mexico is regarding oil production. Look at the amazing decline rate. And look at where they have to be when the export revenue ceases. The Mexicans know approximately what that date is. That's why they're freaking out right now and the nation appears less stable all the time. It's coming quite soon. Sooner than 2014 or 2018.

Oh, there is one nasty element that might delay the 'magic date': Less domestic consumption in Mexico. That's coming too.
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby Mechler » Sun 18 May 2008, 12:49:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '
')
Oh, there is one nasty element that might delay the 'magic date': Less domestic consumption in Mexico. That's coming too.


That's what I'm thinking, too. I can see a lot of Mexicans being priced out real quickly. Does Mexico have any price controls for domestic consumption?

It's too bad that they squandered their oil reserves. If they had a stronger economy, they could have cut production back and saved more for themselves. But they're way too dependent on oil revenues to do that now. I could see a country like Norway doing that, though.

Regardless, this situation can only lead to one thing - increased emigration from Mexico.

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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 18 May 2008, 13:04:58

I think it was in Foreign Affairs several years ago where I read that Mexico is in danger of splitting up into three Mexicos. They said that it was only the work of the Central Government keeping it together against the inequality between regions. The most likely split up, according to them (if I remember correctly), would be a Northern Mexico, Central (Mexico City principally) and Southern (think renegade Chiapas State with no effective force to put down the dissenters). There is no telling what kind of an effect this would have on the surrounding countries.
When it comes down to it, the people will always shout, "Free Barabbas." They love Barabbas. He's one of them. He has the same dreams. He does what they wish they could do. That other guy is more removed, more inscrutable. He makes them think. "Crucify him."
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby cube » Sun 18 May 2008, 15:12:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'I') think it was in Foreign Affairs several years ago where I read that Mexico is in danger of splitting up into three Mexicos. They said that it was only the work of the Central Government keeping it together against the inequality between regions. The most likely split up, according to them (if I remember correctly), would be a Northern Mexico, Central (Mexico City principally) and Southern (think renegade Chiapas State with no effective force to put down the dissenters). There is no telling what kind of an effect this would have on the surrounding countries.
ohh I like that theory

I think it takes energy (amongst other things) to keep a nation together. There are some parts of the world where if you look at a map it is technically 1 nation however the reality (on the ground...asumming any foreigner would be crazy enough to step foot in such a place) is that it's more like a collection of small kingdoms. Somalia is a good example. I expect to see more of this in the future.
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Re: Time Running Out for Energy in Mexico

Unread postby DarkDawg » Mon 19 May 2008, 14:54:30

Can anyone answer this question? Does the recent run up in prices help or hurt Mexico? It seems they would be benefiting greatly right now from high oil prices and if they play their cards right could use that extra revenue to invest in their future or at the very least, buy some time.
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Mexican oil consumption: Going almost nowhere for 7 years

Unread postby copious.abundance » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 21:55:28

For all the talk about declining production in Cantarell, and about Mexican gasoline subsidies, etc., the interesting truth is that oil consumption in Mexico hasn't really grown at all for the past 7 years or so.

Mexico Oil Consumption
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Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Mexican oil consumption: Going almost nowhere for 7 year

Unread postby MonteQuest » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 22:00:59

And your point is?
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