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Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby MrBean » Thu 15 May 2008, 05:48:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'M')rBean
If forests are more important than humans, lets take your logic further, do you have any shamen friends who could get rid of you? You are willing to sacrifice yourself for the good of the forests, right? Or in classical treehugging manner, do you want others to sacrifice, but not yourself since you are "enlightened"?


Any logic that does not start from the realization that one is part of the forest is mistaken. Mans founding relationship with forest is not either-or, but together.

Forest gave birth to humans and humans have lived with forest for millions of years. Only the Oedipal complex of civilization tries to kill and rape forest, who is our father and mother. When Oedipus realizes he is the cause of plague, he blinds himself.
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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby MrBean » Thu 15 May 2008, 05:59:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')What about killing a tree? Is that a bad thing to do? What if you help the poor with the wood you get from the tree?

What about when a volcano erupts and basically does a tree genocide (herbicide?)--is that bad? Is the volcano a force of evil?

What about the other plants that have to die for the tree to live, or even the other trees that have to die for a large tree to live (sort of like in the Rush song "The Trees")?

Let's say you are an environmentalist caveman, and your policy is only to use dead wood for firewood, but one day all of the dead wood is gone and you need to chop down a live tree to heat the cave and cook the mammoth cuts. Is it okay to chop down a tree then, or should you starve and freeze to death?

If you are walking along and you see a bully tree beating up a helpless person, are you justified in jumping in and defending the helpless person?

If a tree fell on your house, would you be justified in going into the forest and dropping a house on a tree?


In my language the definition of stupidity is not to see the forest from the trees.

Forest is the maximum of life.

Tree is the erection of soil. Your relationship with a tree is penis envy.

Hah.
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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby BigTex » Thu 15 May 2008, 08:40:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', 'T')ree is the erection of soil. Your relationship with a tree is penis envy.


I'm going to go sit under a tree and meditate on that one.

Your imagery has me thinking about tree sap in a different way. :shock:
:)
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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby btu2012 » Thu 15 May 2008, 09:06:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', 'F')orest gave birth to humans and humans have lived with forest for millions of years. Only the Oedipal complex of civilization tries to kill and rape forest, who is our father and mother. When Oedipus realizes he is the cause of plague, he blinds himself.


Most people think that savanna gave birth to humans. Forest gave birth to forest apes.

In my language stupidity is defined as talking without making sense.

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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby bodigami » Fri 16 May 2008, 01:26:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', 'F')orest gave birth to humans and humans have lived with forest for millions of years. Only the Oedipal complex of civilization tries to kill and rape forest, who is our father and mother. When Oedipus realizes he is the cause of plague, he blinds himself.


Most people think that savanna gave birth to humans. Forest gave birth to forest apes.

In my language stupidity is defined as talking without making sense.

Btu


We share common ancestors with animals that lived in trees for millions of years. Starting with a cute little organism living in trees.

Either way, evolving into tree-cutting predators is not our natural niche. Even if the first human was not living in a tree... and now that I think about it, when we started living apart from trees surviving became very difficult. And we evolved into a too intelligent species... that now kills its prior symbiotic homes; trees.
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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby btu2012 » Fri 16 May 2008, 01:43:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'A')nd we evolved into a too intelligent species... that now kills its prior symbiotic homes; trees.


It's an interesting perspective though I don't understand why you think that trees are our symbiotic home.

As far as I can see in human history people did not live in the forest but in open areas sometimes close to forests or within forests (meadows, clearings etc). Forests are not the natural habitat of man.

That's why eg. Celtic legends see forests as populated by non-humans (elfs).

This is not to say that we shouldn't protect forests, only to cut a bit through the falsification of anthropological data perpetrated by would be modern shamans.

As long as one can see in the past of human legends etc the forest is something magical and mysterious because it wasn't where most people lived. It was often the place where people hunted but that's a different story. This applies to nomadic tribes as well as agriculturalists.

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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby MrBean » Fri 16 May 2008, 09:21:43

Don't know about would be modern shamans. Strictu sensu shamans are pillars of communities of northern Eurasian peoples.

What is important to realize about forest is that it is a holistic concept, an organic whole - with clearings, meadows, swamps etc.; soil, wind, waters and multitude of life. Forest is abundance
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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby btu2012 » Fri 16 May 2008, 11:14:29

Definitely. But it is not our symbiotic habitat.

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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby MrBean » Fri 16 May 2008, 18:14:39

Don't know about you, but it is our symbiotic habitat. Lungs of the Earth, creator of fertile top-soil, most biodiversality.
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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby btu2012 » Fri 16 May 2008, 18:32:46

Who is "our" ? What nation ?

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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby mercurygirl » Fri 16 May 2008, 18:42:53

Is drinking ice-cold maple sap wrong? :)

Ludi, you must be in a parallel Texas, what with all the witches and shamans and mystical thingies.

I came across this quote and was looking for a place for it. Here seems as good as any.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f God is God, He is not good,
If God is good, He is not God;
Take the even, take the odd,
I would not stay here if I could
Except for the little green leaves in the wood
And the wind on the water."
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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby Ludi » Fri 16 May 2008, 21:50:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mercurygirl', '
')Ludi, you must be in a parallel Texas, what with all the witches and shamans and mystical thingies.


Yes, I live in "Bizarro Texas" :)

I'm fortunate to have gotten to meet some interesting folks.
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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby Ludi » Fri 16 May 2008, 21:53:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', 'D')on't know about you, but it is our symbiotic habitat.


Symbiosis usually, but not always, denotes mutual dependence. I think it might not be the most accurate word choice for humans' relationship with forests. Humans benefit from forests, but forests do not usually receive much if any benefit from humans.
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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby BigTex » Fri 16 May 2008, 21:56:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mercurygirl', 'I')s drinking ice-cold maple sap wrong? :)


Did you see the post a page or two back about trees being the erections of the soil?

You might want to be careful about that sap.
:)
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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby MrBean » Sat 17 May 2008, 04:47:42

double
Last edited by MrBean on Sat 17 May 2008, 04:50:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby MrBean » Sat 17 May 2008, 04:48:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', 'W')ho is "our" ? What nation ?

Btu


Permaculture nations. Or to satisfy the the sap-drinkers, spermaculture nations.
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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby MrBean » Sat 17 May 2008, 04:58:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', 'D')on't know about you, but it is our symbiotic habitat.


Symbiosis usually, but not always, denotes mutual dependence. I think it might not be the most accurate word choice for humans' relationship with forests. Humans benefit from forests, but forests do not usually receive much if any benefit from humans.


You are right, that's what was meant by saying forests are more important than people. People need forests but forests don't need people.
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Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective

Unread postby MrBean » Sat 17 May 2008, 08:59:34

We have a myth about Big Oak, that grew so big that it shadowed everything and nothing else could grow. Then from the sea rose a tiny man who grew into giant and fell the Big Oak with three strikes of axe. The tree that was cut down gave many blessings.

It is easy to see that the civilization of disharmonous groth ideology, the cancer like globalized culture, is a Big Oak.
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