[vision-master]

Seems to me $15 hour down South is pretty dang good money?

[Roy]

Not really. That's about $30k per year before taxes. Try supporting a family on that. It's not easy on $60k (gross) nowadays, if you have a mortgage, medical insurance, car insurance, electricity, eat food, heat that mortgaged home, buy gas, and any outstanding debt-- like student loans, car loans, credit cards etc. Inflation is kicking lots of folks' ass right now, as I'm sure you know.

VW is building a new plant in Anderson SC. There is already a BMW plant in that area (and they aren't happy about VW's plan), a GE plant, and some secondary suppliers are also located there, such as Roechling and Plastics Omnium...

So you are right about foreign companies locating to the lower cost areas of the US. No unions, lower cost of land, less regulation, etc.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', '.')... why is our big 3 auto makers still leaning on the profits from big suv's and trucks sells when they should focus on more mid size high mpg trucks and autos,....

[patience]

Yeah, Back in the day when I worked for GM, the sticker price markup on the small cars was around 11 to 12%, vs 24 to 25% on big cars and trucks. I don't know what it is now, but I'd bet that the ratio hasn't changed. They love the 25% margin on options, too, which is why the best selling models on the lot are always "loaded". Sales commissions are a percentage also, so guess why the sales people try to push that big loaded stuff?

Gm's original financial problems were less the union wages and benefits, and more the inefficient, top-heavy organization. Now that seems to have reversed roles. It got to where I could make twice the money as a machinist that I could as an engineer. GM and others got rid of the older, more expensive engineering people by attrition and layoffs, then hired very young, inexperienced people. When I quit I was told by our engrg. mgr. that he would get stuck with some youngster that would be ineffective for several years, and wanted me to stay on. It was the bean-counter top management that did this, assuming that one body was the same as another, so get the cheap one.

They made their bed. Let them lie in it.

[Revi]

They are dead. Let them rest in peace. The only American car company that might make it is Ford. They had to pay somebody last year even to take Chrysler. These car companies are just a huge liability for somebody.
GM is just another one of the dinosaurs. We aren't going to have a car industry in 5 years. Which cars can make it at $5 a gallon? Maybe the Focus. GM just buys the Vibe from Toyota and renames the Aveo from Suzuki. They both get around 30 mpg, which is not that great.
I think we'll end up having to bail them out with more funny money.
Or the car companies will have to guarantee the price of gas for 3 years to get people to buy their cars.
Wait, that already happened.

[Denny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('patience', 'G')m's original financial problems were less the union wages and benefits, and more the inefficient, top-heavy organization. Now that seems to have reversed roles. It got to where I could make twice the money as a machinist that I could as an engineer.
They made their bed. Let them lie in it.

[patience]

Denny, When did DeLorean quit? I don't remember, but I read his book, "On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors", lambasting the takeover of the BOD/13th Floor of GM building, by accounting types, like Roger Smith.
Yeah, I was at Central Foundry Div., Bedford, IN, when the robotics thing hit, but then (1980) they were so deep in the crap trying to meet CAFE standards that they were just cramming that aluminum foundry with new parts to save weight.

During that time, they hired a person for Tool Engineering, as a Designer, who had a degree in INTERIOR DESIGN, a wallpaper expert, but she was a black woman, so that helped meet their minority quota. To her credit, she did her best, and was a real asset, but it serves to show management non-thinking.
A friend of mine quit in 1974 to work for some obscure electronics firm in Idaho-Hewlett Packard, and was derided out the door as a fool for leaving "Generous Motors" and their cradle-to-the-grave wonderful benefits. Yeah, right. What a bunch of insufferable egomaniacs. By 1980 I couldn't stand it any more and left. It was a breath of fresh air.

[mos6507]

GM can't claim they don't know about peakoil now: Autoblog
Larry Burns, GM's vice president of research and development, spoke right after Dr. Robert Hirsch, ala the Hirsch report.
Hirsch said: "[the]problems are upon us right now, or upon us in the near future"

[Denny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('patience', 'D')enny, When did DeLorean quit?

[alokin]

I read about how the big 3 always meddled in politics, against clean air act, mileage, bought trams to rip them out etc. and I saw a film called "who killed the electric car".
That's maybe the punishment, right so.
Poor workers, they pay for it.

[Denny]

I am concerned abut the GM stockholders too. The stock is down 1/3 just in the past three or four moths. Now this: GM will need $9B infusion
(Interestingly, this article was on Reuters, not in the American papers, including he Detroit News,)
She's hemorrhaging and needs a transfusion. ASt least according to the financial experts. What is peculiar, compared to history is that GM walked right through the Great Depression, made $3 billion in profits during that period, and only had three losing years. But, today, things seem much grimmer. Let's pray she stays afloat. Places like Michigan and Ontario, Ohio and Indiana need GM type jobs and investment.

"GM Chief Financial Officer Ray Young on Tuesday said GM had about $7 billion in undrawn credit facilities in addition to its roughly $24 billion in liquidity as of the end of the first quarter.
He said that while GM was confident of its "liquidity cushion" through 2008, it could take action to raise funds and to cut cut costs further if the current U.S. economic downturn deepens or becomes prolonged.
"If current adverse economic conditions persist or deteriorate further, we would consider a wide range of possible actions to reduce our funding needs and to obtain additional liquidity," Young said at a presentation for bankers outside Detroit."

[mos6507]

I wonder how much of GM's financial problems are due to the housing crisis (GMAC): GMAC

[larrydallas]

Aside from just energy prices being high GM and the other domestics have been building inferior products since the 1970s. Pick pretty much most nay American car built before then and it was world class. Cadillacs were rolling works of art, Chevys were tanks that went 10 yrs, etc...

In the 70s GM funded research to find ways to make a car self destruct after 5 years so they could sell more cars. It worked right until the late 80s. Now you have Japanese and German names building in the USA with cars that go 200K miles easy.

GM can only count on fleet sales to rental cars firms and govt. buyers.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('larrydallas', 'A')side from just energy prices being high GM and the other domestics have been building inferior products since the 1970s. Pick pretty much most nay American car built before then and it was world class. Cadillacs were rolling works of art, Chevys were tanks that went 10 yrs, etc...
In the 70s GM funded research to find ways to make a car self destruct after 5 years so they could sell more cars. It worked right until the late 80s. Now you have Japanese and German names building in the USA with cars that go 200K miles easy.
GM can only count on fleet sales to rental cars firms and govt. buyers.

[alokin]

that's true. You don't see American cars in developed countries, they buy Japanese or European stuff. Same with white goods. And the difference is incredible (I had to buy a US fridge here in Australia, real crab).
Reading this thread I was really astonished about the wages paid in America - who can live on thees wages?? And then there are so few holidays! Many foreigners coming to Brisbane begin as cleaners or making sandwiches and they get $15.
The richest nation on earth??? That's a joke!

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('larrydallas', 'P')ick pretty much most nay American car built before then and it was world class. Cadillacs were rolling works of art, Chevys were tanks that went 10 yrs, etc...
... Now you have Japanese and German names building in the USA with cars that go 200K miles easy.

[usncom]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('alokin', 't')hat's true. You don't see American cars in developed countries, they buy Japanese or European stuff. Same with white goods. And the difference is incredible (I had to buy a US fridge here in Australia, real crab).
Reading this thread I was really astonished about the wages paid in America - who can live on thees wages?? And then there are so few holidays! Many foreigners coming to Brisbane begin as cleaners or making sandwiches and they get $15.
The richest nation on earth??? That's a joke!

[vision-master]

Yeah, that 3800 V-6 is a pile of junk as it's only been in production since about 1962............

An my FULL-SIZE GMC car will get close to 30 mpg highway and outrun them ToyHonSukz's any day.

[MarkJ]

I run in the mid 20s with my LS1 powered 2002 Trans Am even though I don't really baby it.

[patience]

My old S-10 gets 25 in winter and 29 mpg in summer, was cheap to buy and they usually last me around 200,000 miles, treated like aborrowed mules every inch of the way. I beat them to death, but it takes a long time.
Of course GM in their infinite stupidity screwed THAT up, too. Now it is bigger, with a bigger engine, and of course costs more. Pee on 'em. Natural selection weeds out stupidity in business.