[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'I') actually found myself pondering a question I could not find an answer for the other day. If you take a handy chunk of California desert not too far inland from the Pacific and plant 1000 acre's of oil palms on it how much sea water would you have to desalinate to keep them properly watered? How much energy would it take to desalinate and move that much water to the plantation? Migfht be worth it if it means they will stop cutting down all the tropical rain forests to plant oil palms!

[TheDude]

Lorenzo popped by for a few weeks in Jan to deliver his negative entropy biofuels rap, then vanished again. I'm sure he'd tell you if you're looking for palm oil land there are millions of acres in the 3rd world to exploit which have lain fallow up to now due to depressed commodities prices. Etc.

NAFTA's done its damage already, haddnit? NAFTA 2.0 on the other hand...Maybe we (Nortenos) will get some oil quotas out of Mexico this time.

[FoolYap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ainan', 'P')eak oil and peak food on msn? The end is really nigh. Anyone who can buy stores of non-perishable food should do so now. We live in a golden age where a weeks wages can buy a years worth of food which can be preserved for several years.

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoolYap', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ainan', 'P')eak oil and peak food on msn? The end is really nigh. Anyone who can buy stores of non-perishable food should do so now. We live in a golden age where a weeks wages can buy a years worth of food which can be preserved for several years.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoolYap', '
')What good does it do to store a year's worth of purchased food, if you can't grow the next year's worth when it runs out?

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoolYap', '
')What good does it do to store a year's worth of purchased food, if you can't grow the next year's worth when it runs out?

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoolYap', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ainan', 'P')eak oil and peak food on msn? The end is really nigh. Anyone who can buy stores of non-perishable food should do so now. We live in a golden age where a weeks wages can buy a years worth of food which can be preserved for several years.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'T')here must be a timer of how much a thread lasts without talking of canibalism...

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoolYap', '
')What good does it do to store a year's worth of purchased food, if you can't grow the next year's worth when it runs out?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', ' ')Cooking your own food from raw ingredients instead eating out and buying frozen dinners and other packaged foods.

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', ' ') Or if you want to construct the argument another way, Americans are more paranoid about the loss of supply lines or the inaffordability of food.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '.')..
I think the American perspective is a natural reaction to the fact that we are a country or wide spaces... ok and we are a little paranoid... but our paranoia is not always unjustified.

[timmac]

crabby wrote :
I just wanted to come back, a year after I told everyone that ethanol and biofuels would send the world into starvation mode and cause famines. I was told I was incorrect then. I just want to come back and say
Told you so.


My reply > I think Bio-Fuels is getting a bad rap about high food cost and shortages,, I think Big Oil is wanting to kill Bio-Fuels just like the Electric Car,, Did you know that when corn is made into Ethanol the mash is dried and sent back to the feed lots and feeds the animals,, its also a better feed after using it to make Ethanol,, Yes planting to much corn does cause a problem but what about Tobacco is this not a waste of land why not grow food why dont any one say Tobacco farmers are causeing a food shortage,, What about Coffee Bean farmers why not grow food,, [why],, Maybe its because world popualtion is growing very very fast [7 billon by 2015],, Very high cost of oil is the real problem not Bio-Fuels dont let this one get put under by big oil,, Better farm management needs to be done but dont kill or blame corn/soy bean farmers,, [Iowa has always been growing corn and soybeans],, Over the past 30-40 years we have paved over farm land and put up Condo's, Shopping Malls, Walmarts, Etc, Etc, Why not blame them,, [No its always Bio-Fuel that gets the BAD RAP]...............Learn the real problem and follow the Money,, Don't get your facts from the BIG CORP TV NEWS STATIONS...................

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', 'I')owa has always been growing corn and soybeans

[yeahbut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('crabby', 'I') just wanted to come back, a year after I told everyone that ethanol and biofuels would send the world into starvation mode and cause famines. I was told I was incorrect then. I just want to come back and say
Told you so.

[timmac]

yeahbut wrote :

A secret World Bank report has shown that biofuels have forced world food prices up by 75 percent, disputing U.S. President George W. Bush's claims that higher demand from India and China has led to higher food prices, according to a report issued in Friday's Guardian.

My Reply :
So explain this one many farmers have switch over to grow corn for higher price for demand of Ethanol,, but no corn is wasted they just use it for its sugar and such for Ethanol and grains are than dried and sent/sold to cattle and pig feed lots, same amount as if it was not used to make Ethanol, however the corn grain is now a better feed because cattle can now diegest it better, [fact], so with the glut of corn feed would'nt meat pices go down,, NO it to has increase alot in price, WHY because of places like China and India where there wages have increased so has there meat in take and so has the size of there portain of food as well, the more you make the more you eat, [fact],, bad weather in other parts of the world has slow downed farm production and higher much higher cost of fuel to grow and transport food is rising food prices alot,, I will agree that all farmers switching to corn to make Ethanol is not a good idea but to just blame the Ethanol as the only problem is stupid and lame,, Why not stop all the tobacco farmers that waste land and fuel for cancer sticks why is that not in there report,, how about coffee bean farmers as well, do we need $5.00 coffee at StarBucks, why not more food from these farmers, lets also stop selling farm land to put up parking lots, condos, shopping malls, why was this not in there report, [why], it was only the Bio-Fuels that they blamed,, I will bet you $100.00 that the report was made by big exec bankers that are making HUGE profits off there oil stock and want to make sure that people blame someone else and not there BILLION $$ wages,, [Follow the Money],, Many factors are causing food shortage not just one,, [7 Billion People by 2015, UN Report].......................

[timmac]

pistar wrote :
So timmac biofuels are a good thing, huh?



So you you would rather we keep buying the black oil from our enemies and keep poluting the earth,, Bio-Fuels are not the answer but they are a better fuel than your black oil,, if you think the high price of fuel is not increasing the price of food then you are just stupid and blind,, Yea lets kill the Bio-Fuel program and slave our selves to just buy fuel from our enemies and make multi billionares out of all of them and drive our country broke,, good idea from a idiot....