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America Going Broke Because Of Oil

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby bruin » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 17:20:27

Image

Americans are going broke over oil. Craigslist and ebay are full of junk from people trying to fill their tank. Truckers are losing money hauling bottled water from one side of the country to the other.

We're just getting started folks. This is all a slow moving train wreck and the decline will take years but will keep getting worse as the price of oil keeps going up.
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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 17:33:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bruin', '[')img]http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/04/30/gall.truck.dc.gi.jpg[/img]


Wow, Hillary is looking worse than ever.
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby Last_Laff » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 17:58:54

:lol:
"Panic is not a strategy." - BigTex
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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby frankthetank » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 18:11:06

Best looking truck i've seen in a long time.
lawns should be outlawed.
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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby joeltrout » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 18:17:06

Maybe Americans won't take all those years of cheap oil for granted now. What goes around comes around.

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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby Denny » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 18:17:18

You can't blame oil for the woes, you have to blame people's actions. People can adapt, and in fact, we have had years of warnings. Other nations are suffering somewhat, but generally taking it in stride. A measure of optimism is that prosperous places like Grmany and Japan seem to vbe doing okay, despite living with consumer energy prices twice what we are used to.

We can survive and thrive.

Just think of all the growth businesses that can come out of high oil prices:
    Wind power
    Scooters to take the place of cars for personal commuting
    Manufacture of trains to replace aircraft for intercity travel
    An enormous infrastructure that goes with rail replacing trucking.
    Same for passenger traffic taking the place of aircraft
    Moving bulky goods manufacture to North America - furniture, etc.
    More use of river barges to move commodities
    Perhaps nautural gas to repalce gasoline to power automobiles
    New construction jobs within inner cities as people commute less

We are only seeing the cup half empty, its also half full!

In essence the high oil prices, if sustained, will bring about a revolution in lifetyles and economics. In turn, those bring the promise of new jobs and new investment opportunities.
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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby joeltrout » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 18:24:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'Y')ou can't blame oil for the woes, you have to blame people's actions. People can adapt, and in fact, we have had years of warnings. Other nations are suffering somewhat, but generally taking it in stride. A measure of optimism is that prosperous places like Grmany and Japan seem to vbe doing okay, despite living with consumer energy prices twice what we are used to.

We can survive and thrive.

Just think of all the growth businesses that can come out of high oil prices:
    Wind power
    Scooters to take the place of cars for personal commuting
    Manufacture of trains to replace aircraft for intercity travel
    An enormous infrastructure that goes with rail replacing trucking.
    Same for passenger traffic taking the place of aircraft
    Moving bulky goods manufacture to North America - furniture, etc.
    More use of river barges to move commodities
    Perhaps nautural gas to repalce gasoline to power automobiles
    New construction jobs within inner cities as people commute less
We are only seeing the cup half empty, its also half full!

In essence the high oil prices, if sustained, will bring about a revolution in lifetyles and economics. In turn, those bring the promise of new jobs and new investment opportunities.


What time frame are you looking at???

Not to be rude, but I am guess 20+ years before most of your suggestions could get up and running.

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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby IanC » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 19:04:50

Man, do I feel sorry for whoever has to be president next.

True, there is enough work to be done to keep us occupied as we adjust to super-high oil prices, but we'll never be as rich, mobile, and well fed as we are now.

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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby Cashmere » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 19:07:15

America going broke because Americans, through their elected leaders, spend money like drunken sailors.
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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby jlw61 » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 19:24:52

Americans have been buying crap on their credit cards for so long they don't realize the problem, let alone the solution.

Get rid of credit cards.
Get out of debt.
Learn to live without so much crap.
Save money.

My wife and I got rid of the cards, the extra car, and a lot of things we realized we didn't need. After less then 2 years, we're in better condition than people we used to consider better off than ourselves.
When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby 3aidlillahi » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 19:28:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'A')merica going broke because Americans, through their elected leaders, spend money like drunken sailors.


That's not a very nice thing to say about drunken sailors. What did they ever do to you?
Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby shortonoil » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 19:30:33

$120 oil is costing the US $690 billion per year, at this point almost our entire current account deficit! The money to buy this oil has to be borrowed , and then interest must be paid on the sums borrowed. This is happening as foreign investors increasing shun US equities and bonds. Private foreign investment is now almost zero, and only foreign central banks and SWF are buying US treasuries. These they are buying in ever decreasing amounts.

Oil is not just driving America broke, it has driven America broke. At the present time almost every bank in the nation is insolvent; they have an equity position of negative $90 billion and its growing downward rapidly. It is just a brief matter of time before Joe Average follows the financial industry into bankruptcy.
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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby mos6507 » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 19:35:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'Y')ou can't blame oil for the woes, you have to blame people's actions. People can adapt, and in fact, we have had years of warnings. Other nations are suffering somewhat, but generally taking it in stride. A measure of optimism is that prosperous places like Grmany and Japan seem to vbe doing okay, despite living with consumer energy prices twice what we are used to.

We can survive and thrive.

Just think of all the growth businesses that can come out of high oil prices:
    Wind power
    Scooters to take the place of cars for personal commuting
    Manufacture of trains to replace aircraft for intercity travel
    An enormous infrastructure that goes with rail replacing trucking.
    Same for passenger traffic taking the place of aircraft
    Moving bulky goods manufacture to North America - furniture, etc.
    More use of river barges to move commodities
    Perhaps nautural gas to repalce gasoline to power automobiles
    New construction jobs within inner cities as people commute less
We are only seeing the cup half empty, its also half full!

In essence the high oil prices, if sustained, will bring about a revolution in lifetyles and economics. In turn, those bring the promise of new jobs and new investment opportunities.



You missed one.

Apple store employees:



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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby gampy » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 19:38:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', '
')In essence the high oil prices, if sustained, will bring about a revolution in lifetyles and economics. In turn, those bring the promise of new jobs and new investment opportunities.


Yeah, I am of the same mind. The writing is on the wall, and in pretty big letters. My lifestyle at the moment does not revolve around the price of gas. Food prices are more expensive, but I don't buy bottled water from 2000 miles away, or exotic fruits and vegetables, or beef from gods know where.

If people are getting worried, it's because their lives revolve around their autos, boats, and overpriced mortgages. I don't give a rat's ass really about all that stuff. It will affect me, certainly, but I am not overly anxious...change is good.

I think what is important, is how fast the changes occur. Quick changes are usually the most violent, and disruptive. A gradual move away from the lifestyle of the 1950's through the 1990's would be a good thing.
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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby TheDude » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 20:19:14

:lol:

Even zombies like Macs.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')cooters to take the place of cars for personal commuting


Around town perhaps, but on the highways it's a different matter. Search the site for "scooter" for some past discussions.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')erhaps nautural gas to repalce gasoline to power automobiles


Why are people contemplating this insane notion?
Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
And let me tell you something: I dig your work.
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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby cube » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 21:34:25

This situation is called over-capacity.
The only "solution" is to let these truck drivers go out of business.
Whoever survives can pick up enough customers to operate a profitable business.

The purpose of free market capitalism is generate profits, not losses. It seems that everybody is asking for a government bail out these days. First it was the bankers and now it's the truckers. They're using the same tired argument: "you must bail us out because you cannot afford to lose us."

my reply would be, "Folks if we really needed your services that badly we would of paid for them. The fact that we're NOT suggests that we really can do without you!" ---> I never knew bankers and truckers would have something in common. :shock:
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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby Denny » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 22:01:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')erhaps nautural gas to repalce gasoline to power automobiles


Why are people contemplating this insane notion?


Actually, Australia is looking at this now. see Natural Gas - Fuel of the future

A company, Westport Technologies, is already outfitting city public works vehicles, postal vehicles, buses, etc. with natural gas burning conversions to diesel engines in partnership with Cummins, and claims it has a significantly lower operating cost, along with less greenhouse gas emissions. Likely as natural gas sells for so much less than oil for the same energy content.
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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby bodigami » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 23:41:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', '(')...)
We are only seeing the cup half empty, its also half full!

In essence the high oil prices, if sustained, will bring about a revolution in lifetyles and economics. In turn, those bring the promise of new jobs and new investment opportunities.



You missed one.

Apple store employees:
(...)


those are anti-capitalist protesters, not Apple employees or costumers...
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Re: America Going Broke Because Of Oil

Unread postby bodigami » Thu 01 May 2008, 00:03:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'T')his situation is called over-capacity.
The only "solution" is to let these truck drivers go out of business.
Whoever survives can pick up enough customers to operate a profitable business.

The purpose of free market capitalism is generate profits, not losses. It seems that everybody is asking for a government bail out these days. First it was the bankers and now it's the truckers. They're using the same tired argument: "you must bail us out because you cannot afford to lose us."

my reply would be, "Folks if we really needed your services that badly we would of paid for them. The fact that we're NOT suggests that we really can do without you!" ---> I never knew bankers and truckers would have something in common. :shock:


indeed, free commerce is not real... WTO, IMF, and so on are more "feudalist"/(few/mono)polistic than "capitalist", free trade my _ :x
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