[gnm]

It only applies if you have an SSN. Thats what I am saying - Its impossible to file a return without an SSN. Nor does the IRS have any method of withholding in the absence of an SSN. And there is no requirement to get an SSN - but there is also no way to get rid of an SSN....

By getting an SSN you are essentially entering into a permanent contract with the "corporate" US and agreeing to be subject to all tax law.

-G

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'I')t only applies if you have an SSN. Thats what I am saying - Its impossible to file a return without an SSN. Nor does the IRS have any method of withholding in the absence of an SSN. And there is no requirement to get an SSN - but there is also no way to get rid of an SSN....

-G

[gnm]

Catch them doing what? Not having an SSN?

Please tell me how to file without an SSN. The IRS says you can't. I called them. Its SSN or TIN.

You can't get a TIN if you are eligible for an SSN. So still no withholding.

-G

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'C')atch them doing what? Not having an SSN?

Please tell me how to file without an SSN. The IRS says you can't. I called them. Its SSN or TIN.

You can't get a TIN if you are eligible for an SSN. So still no withholding.

-G

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'O')nly you cannot file a W2 so the withholding is not on the employer as the potential employee is exempt from withholding/filing.

[gnm]

SPG, I need to find the form, but there is a way to do it which basically states that the employee is responsible for all applicable tax withholding - in short none if you have no SSN but lets employer off the hook. Once again no SSN, no way for them to do it....

-G

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'S')PG, I need to find the form, but there is a way to do it which basically states that the employee is responsible for all applicable tax withholding - in short none if you have no SSN but lets employer off the hook. Once again no SSN, no way for them to do it....

-G

[gnm]

Essentially what I am proposing (at least my take on things after a couple years studying it) is that the SSN is the key in that it represents the contract which makes you liable for withholding and filing, and relinquishes your constitutional rights to due process etc in regards to the contract (taxes).

I know someone who files said form to an employer - I will try to get details but it will take a day or two.

-G

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'S')o if you are a natural born US citizen who has CHOSEN not to get a SSN they have no way of withholding and no way for you to file a return other than to tell you "get an SSN" - which is not mandatory.

[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'Y')ep. That sounds right. You don't have to get an SSN, but you can't file taxes without it, and you can't forgo taxes without going to jail. In
essence, if you want to work in the US, you have to get numbered.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'E')ssentially what I am proposing (at least my take on things after a couple years studying it) is that the SSN is the key in that it represents the contract which makes you liable for withholding and filing, and relinquishes your constitutional rights to due process etc in regards to the contract (taxes).

I know someone who files said form to an employer - I will try to get details but it will take a day or two.

-G

[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'I')ncome taxes are not a contractual matter. Most legal obligations imposed by the government are not contractual. You can no more "opt out" of income tax liabilities than you can opt out of speed limits, red lights or other laws. Also, due process rights under the Constitution are not a matter of applying for a SSN.

But I will let you make your argument and comment on it then.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')PG, I need to find the form, but there is a way to do it which basically states that the employee is responsible for all applicable tax withholding - in short none if you have no SSN but lets employer off the hook.

[Ludi]

gnm, if you are a freelancer or independent contractor, withholding is not taken from your pay, but you are still required to pay income tax. Many people starting out as freelancers believe they are not required to pay income tax because their "employer" does not withhold. Eventually they find out they're wrong, plus fines and interest.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'W')ell I agree that most laws are not "opt out" but please explain then why tax court doesn't need to follow due process before seizure etc.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'I')ncome taxes are not a contractual matter. Most legal obligations imposed by the government are not contractual. You can no more "opt out" of income tax liabilities than you can opt out of speed limits, red lights or other laws. Also, due process rights under the Constitution are not a matter of applying for a SSN.

But I will let you make your argument and comment on it then.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'g')nm, if you are a freelancer or independent contractor, withholding is not taken from your pay, but you are still required to pay income tax

[americandream]

As a tax lawyer, I have to say that Big Tex is correct. The die is cast as far as the nature of your system goes in terms of its constitutionality. Nothing short of systemic upheaval will bring the constitutional issues to the fore and that, my friends, will not be played out in a court room.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'g')nm, if you are a freelancer or independent contractor, withholding is not taken from your pay, but you are still required to pay income tax. Many people starting out as freelancers believe they are not required to pay income tax because their "employer" does not withhold. Eventually they find out they're wrong, plus fines and interest.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I')f you think that's bad, wait till you hire an employee. At this point, between myself and two part time employees I'm required to make 28 separate income tax payments each year and file 22 separate returns.