[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', ' ')"A recent study has found another Clostridium bacterium that seems to be twice as efficient in making ethanol from carbon monoxide as the one mentioned above."

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sicophiliac', 'N')either side has won this argument, if we are all still here posting in 5 years after numerous cellulosic ethanol plants are scheduled to come online then we shall see how it pans out.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', ' ')if you wish to address that claim why wouldn't you do so in a reasonable manner instead of mimicking someone whose only intention, at least in this case, is that of mischief?

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', ' ')if you wish to address that claim why wouldn't you do so in a reasonable manner instead of mimicking someone whose only intention, at least in this case, is that of mischief?

[Ludi]

I think you deliberately misunderstand me, yesplease. Maybe you don't, maybe it is accidental.

When I say I would be more comforted by statements of fact about processes, I mean I would be more comforted to know they DO ACTUALLY provide what they promise. It's not to do with scientific theories, it is to do with results.

By Arctic sea ice melting, I mean, of course, that it is being observed to be melting faster than previously. But maybe you just didn't know I meant that, or couldn't figure out what I was trying to say.


Anyway, I'm just trolling this thread. So who the fuck cares what I think?

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'R')e: global climate change, there are plenty of "is" statements presented. The arctic sea ice IS melting.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') think you deliberately misunderstand me, yesplease. Maybe you don't, maybe it is accidental.

When I say I would be more comforted by statements of fact about processes, I mean I would be more comforted to know they DO ACTUALLY provide what they promise. It's not to do with scientific theories, it is to do with results.

[Ludi]

I said I wasn't talking about science. I was talking about results.

Anyway, never mind.

[yesplease]

If yer looking for absolutes check out the media. If you're looking for rational claims based on probabilistic relationships, check out science papers and whatnot.

[Ludi]

Stop that, pstarr. That's not "science."

[Ludi]

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'y')esplease, I got some science for ya

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pimentel and Patzek', 'T')able 3. Average Inputs and Energy Inputs Per Hectare Per Year
for Switchgrass Production
----Inputs----------------------------Quantity----kcalx1000
Labor----------------------------------5 hr-----------------20
Machinery---------------------------30 kg----------------555
Diesel------------------------------100 L ----------------1,000
Nitrogen---------------------------50 kg ----------------800
Seeds-----------------------------1.6 kg ----------------100
Herbicides------------------------3 kg ------------------300
Total 10,000 kg yield ----------------2,755
40 million input/ 1:14.4k
kcal yield output ratio

Table 4. Inputs Per 1000 l of 99.5% Ethanol Produced From U.S. Switchgrass
----Inputs----------------------------Quantities----kcal x 1000
Switchgrass------------------------2,500 kg---------694
Transport, switchgrass------------2,500 kg-------300
Water-------------------------------125,000 kg-------70
Stainless steel---------------------3 kg---------------45
Steel--------------------------------4 kg----------------46
Cement-----------------------------8 kg---------------15
Grind switchgrass------------------2,500 kg-------100
Sulfuric acid------------------------118 kg---------------0
Steam production------------------8.1 tons----- 4,404
Electricity---------------------------660 kWh------1,703
Ethanol conversion to 99.5%-----9 kcal/L-----------9
Sewage effluent-------------------20 kg (BOD)-----69
Total-------------------------------------------------7,455

Inputs per 1,000 l of ethanol: 7,455,000 kcals. Outputs per 1000 l of ethanol: 5,130,000 million kcal.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I') confused the two threads. Nathan Greene doesn't know what he is talking about. He is an embarrassment to the NRDC. The NRDC does not know what it is talkng about. I gotta go.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he study by Tiffany Groode and John Heywood at MIT’s Laboratory for Energy and the Environment tackles the ethanol LCA problem by incorporating a Monte Carlo simulation of the numerous normally distributed inputs accounting for the wide range of agricultural and technological variability into the analysis.

This produces a probability density function (PDF) that represents a range of outcomes for the ethanol production systems fossil energy consumption and GHG emission values. This range of outcomes, rather than the single-value results provides new insights to the ongoing debate around ethanol’s energy security and GHG reduction potential as an alternative fuel.

[yesplease]

What who said? Double dog dare you!