by julianj » Tue 22 Feb 2005, 16:28:52
An interesting post. I'd never heard of Wrangham. Athough your post talks about male vioelnce, so it seems that you are validating Barbara's that violence (leaving out Boudicca and other rare female cases) is primarily a male thing.
But even given that, there are still very large cultural forces at work. In our societies, let's face it violence is low. Because whatever the circumstances, our own self-control, fear of the police, courts etc,we spend most of our time co-operating. I'd say pub-fights fit your description of one person or gang feeling they were going not to be hurt much.
But contrariwise I've been in some tense offices, with dominant alpha males etc, and though I can recall arguments, I cannot recall any fights - because the culture determines that you don't hit other office workers, in spite of chimp-like bravado displays, i.e throwing your clipboard down.
And surely the orchestrated violence of war has to have cultural roots: dropping bombs on Fallujah from an F16 does not remotely fit the pattern of chimplike aggression.
I was really pleased you cited Dixon, which is a classic text:
On the Psychology of Military Incompetence.
This was probably the first book about military incompetence and took a cultural/pychological view, as in its title.
If I am to summarise it rather baldy, people who rise to command in military hierarchies are authoritarian personalities, whose maladaption is enouraged by the command structure of obeying and giving orders.When confronted by the dynamic situations of warfare they make appalling decisions, because they have been promoted above their ability and are inflexible and unimaginative.
I accept your posting as valid within its compass, but still does not explain the whole reasons for warfare, especially the idiotic decisions. Here's one, from my own countries' many disasters. The Battle of Loos, WWI (6500 British dead, not one german!).
The plan: to take 2 1/2 of the 5 (known) German trench lines - actually there was a sixth hidden reserve line.
OK that's the whole of the plan. I think we can all see it is rather well, risible....how come a whole bunch of Generals made a plan so stupid and got people to try to carry it out? There has to be more to it IMO than hard-wired aggression.
Finally, I think there is a lot to be said for the fact that we spend most of our time co-operating, not fighting. And there are societies, here now, where violence is very low. Japan for a start, because of cultural norms. This is all the more startling when you consider how densely populated the place is, and their ferocious history of warfare.
Here's my anecdote, and while I know it isn't strictly scientific, it does give you an idea of how free from violence the average Japanese street is.
I was in Tokyo about 15 years ago. I was pretty drunk, and trying to find my hotel at around midnight. Tokyo streets are mad: they still are numbered from the ancient Edo prefectures, so finding your way about can be crazy.
I found myself accidentally following a small Japanese woman pushing her kid in a buggy - not deliberately this was pure coincidence. She'd walk on. I'd stand around trying to recognise the street I was on, then catch her up.
She must have been aware that a drunk foreigner - gaijin -was walking behind her. She turned down a street I recognised as being near my hotel, so I turned down too.
A Western woman would have been frightened at this point (I only realised this the next day, otherwise I would have crossed the street or something, but I was p*ssed).
She stopped at a vending machine to buy a drink for her kid! I thought "That's a good idea" and went to get one for myself. The Kid pointed and said "Gaijin!" as they do. And she gave me with a look of mild disdain, shrugged, and walked away, pushing her buggy.
The thought that I might have been a danger to her did not cross her mind for a second, because Japan is an incredibly peaceable place, and this was in the capital city after midnight!
If violence is so hardwired in, and so tribal, plus fuelled byalcohol,Tokyo Saturday night should be like something out of the old film The Warriors, but it ain't.
