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CPI updated - is it believable?

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CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby Denny » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 15:51:04

I place no credibility in the official CPI anymore. Let's look at today's news item, I see this today on CNN Money: "Consumer prices edge higher":

"The Consumer Price Index, the government's key inflation measure, rose 0.3%, compared to February, when prices were unchanged. The gain matched the forecasts of economists surveyed by Briefing.com."
- Just up 0.3% in a month, overall? Thus, it cost you just $100.30 for what cost you $100 in February. Does this match anybody's perceptions?

"The price of energy jumped 1.9% percent in the month." So, in other words, if a typical consumer paid $3.20 for a gallon gas in February, that same gallon would have cost about $3.26 in March, Up about 6 cents. Does this match anybody's exprience? I saw gasoline rise 6 cents a gallon in just one week in Florida in March.

But, there is more good news in this story:
"But the fact that the CPI report showed consumer inflation as roughly in line with forecasts should assure investors who are hoping for further interest rate cuts from the central bank." Well, we know that money supply expansion precedes price inflation. so, you can't gauge the proper interest rate on how prices are behaving currently. That is fuzzy headed thinking. If the federal reserve bank does that, it will overshoot the target and by the time the prices start leaping, it wil be too late to contain it by anyting short of drastic and hurtful interest rate jumps.

I think these statements in the article are some examples of fantasy over fact:

"Health care prices rose 0.1%."
Really? That is all?

Food and beverage prices gained 0.2%, as a jump in the price of fresh vegetables, baked goods, sugar and sweets were balanced by declines in prices for dairy and related products."
Dairy prices went down? And how do "dairy and related" price reductions, even if they happened, manage to balance off vegetables, baked goods, sugar and sweets? I'd guess that the latter account for 3X the value of sales of the former.

I'd like to see the "shopping basket" comparison, item by item, but cannot locate it on the BLS website. I am guessing they do not want to show the specifics becuase it would raise too many eyebrows.
Last edited by Denny on Wed 16 Apr 2008, 16:21:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby Troyboy1208 » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 15:56:41

I am not sure which planet they are referring to. This planet is seeing unprecedented increases in ...well just about everything. That report is hogwash
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby Roy » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 15:57:37

The CPI?

cough cough bullshit cough cough. The BLS says food prices have increased


Supermarket Sticker Shock, NY Post

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')verall, food prices jumped 4 percent in 2007 compared to average yearly increases of 2.5 percent for the previous 15 years, US Department of Agriculture data show.


Hmmm. Only 4%? I'd like to know where they're shopping. Because in my estimation, it's more like 50% overall. Of course, that's strictly anecdotal...

cough cough bullshit cough cough
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 16:07:19

The CPI is bogus; it is used to temper the COLA increases in SSI & other entitlement benefits. Can you imagine it any other way?
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 16:10:43

Many food items have gone up 10% within the last two Months!
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 16:15:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')he CPI is bogus; it is used to temper the COLA increases in SSI & other entitlement benefits. Can you imagine it any other way?


SSI pays a single $637 Month. So with CPI at .03% maybe they will get $656 a Month next year. How's dem apples. :razz:
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 16:22:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')he CPI is bogus; it is used to temper the COLA increases in SSI & other entitlement benefits. Can you imagine it any other way?


SSI pays a single $637 Month. So with CPI at .03% maybe they will get $656 a Month next year. How's dem apples. :razz:


...sounds like granny is taking a 20% haircut (at least)

On the bright side, LCD TVs should still be getting cheaper, which is good, because her old one stops working next year. :oops:
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 16:31:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')he CPI is bogus; it is used to temper the COLA increases in SSI & other entitlement benefits. Can you imagine it any other way?


SSI pays a single $637 Month. So with CPI at .03% maybe they will get $656 a Month next year. How's dem apples. :razz:


...sounds like granny is taking a 20% haircut (at least)

On the bright side, LCD TVs should still be getting cheaper, which is good, because her old one stops working next year. :oops:


Converter box coupon good for $40. Best buy has em boxes for $59. So, granny can get set up for about $20. I picked one up for the 36" analog set. The dang thing works great. A nice very sharp picture just like my big screen.
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 16:34:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')he CPI is bogus; it is used to temper the COLA increases in SSI & other entitlement benefits. Can you imagine it any other way?


SSI pays a single $637 Month. So with CPI at .03% maybe they will get $656 a Month next year. How's dem apples. :razz:


...sounds like granny is taking a 20% haircut (at least)

On the bright side, LCD TVs should still be getting cheaper, which is good, because her old one stops working next year. :oops:


Converter box coupon good for $40. Best buy has em boxes for $59. So, granny can get set up for about $20. I picked one up for the 36" analog set. The dang thing works great. A nice very sharp picture just like my big screen.


Hmmmm, maybe granny's in better shape than I thought! She might not be able to afford the last week of the month anymore, but she'll get to watch her "stories"! :o
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby Denny » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 16:35:43

According to this commodity chart website Trading charts the average price for a gallon of gasoline in February was $2.43. For March, it was $2.67. That is an increase of 9.87%, month over month, not 1.8% And, that closer mirrors the complaints I heard from everybody when I visited Florida in March.

Where does BLS sample their gas prices?

If you check the website, you can click on each weekly bar on the graph and a description will show up showing the open, high, low and close price for each week. I used the weekly close prices.
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 16:39:31

Apparently, their sample runs mid-month to mid-month. This is why February showed a DECREASE (IIRC) in gas prices, because of the timing of the report, which just happened to end at the lowest price of the month. The actual month of February, e.g. 2/1 - 2/29, showed a marked INCREASE, though.
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 16:54:14

The price of ENERGY rose 1.9% last month.

They never said gasoline rose 1.9% last month.

Gasoline is not 100% of all energy consumption.
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby ShaneT34 » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 17:00:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]emersonbiggins wrote: The CPI is bogus; it is used to temper the COLA increases in SSI & other entitlement benefits. Can you imagine it any other way?


There is an excellent piece discussing the systematic distortion of the CPI over the years resulting in reduced SSI, et al. benefits payments in this month's (May 2008) Harper's Magazine. Unfortunately its behind a paywall here:

Numbers Racket: Why the economy is worse than we know

With a hat tip to the Energy Bulletin for a related article in the same May issue:

Faustian Economics - Hell hath no Limits
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 17:13:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'T')he price of ENERGY rose 1.9% last month.

They never said gasoline rose 1.9% last month.

Gasoline is not 100% of all energy consumption.


Well, actually they said:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..energy expenses jumped 1.9 percent, the most since November, after a decrease of 0.5 percent the prior month. Gasoline prices rose 1.3 percent, fuel oil costs jumped 10.1 percent and natural gas prices were up 4.6 percent. link


So, "cheap" gasoline tempered the rate from going even higher. :roll:

Does anyone on this planet actually think gasoline only went up 3-4 cents last month?

Oh, and thanks to Shane for the links! :)
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby Twilight » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 17:31:58

It's like communism - lots of statistics every day showing everything is OK, everyone believing their eyes.
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 17:32:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ShaneT34', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]emersonbiggins wrote: The CPI is bogus; it is used to temper the COLA increases in SSI & other entitlement benefits. Can you imagine it any other way?


There is an excellent piece discussing the systematic distortion of the CPI over the years resulting in reduced SSI, et al. benefits payments in this month's (May 2008) Harper's Magazine. Unfortunately its behind a paywall here:

Numbers Racket: Why the economy is worse than we know

With a hat tip to the Energy Bulletin for a related article in the same May issue:

Faustian Economics - Hell hath no Limits


Sorry . . .
but this page is only available to Harper's Magazine subscribers.
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 18:00:48

I want to apologize for my early comment.

US Gasoline Prices Weekly Chart

The CPI is completely bogus.

According to the EIA's data, gasoline prices for the average of all grades increased by 3.9% in March.

WTF are they smoking at the CPI Calculator Headquarters???? 8O

Maybe they are attempting to factor in reductions in consumption into the calculations. But that seems a little bit like saying "food prices fell because everyone starved to death". :roll:
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby heroineworshipper » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 18:01:41

The current CPI omits substitutions. If food doubles in price & people resort to cannibalism, there is no inflation because cannibalism provides the same value as food.
People first, then things, then dollars.
There will be enslavement, cannibalism, & zombie invasions.
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby sdcoyote » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 18:08:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I') want to apologize for my early comment.

US Gasoline Prices Weekly Chart

The CPI is completely bogus.

According to the EIA's data, gasoline prices for the average of all grades increased by 3.9% in March.

WTF are they smoking at the CPI Calculator Headquarters???? 8O

Maybe they are attempting to factor in reductions in consumption into the calculations. But that seems a little bit like saying "food prices fell because everyone starved to death". :roll:


Your catching on now...by the way Kevin Phillips matches my 7 - 9% inflation rate in the Harpers' article....

I'll type out the end of it...

THE US ECONOMY EX-DISTORTION

The real numbers, to most economically minded Americans, would be a face full of cold water. Based the criteria in place a quarter centruy ago, today's U.S. unemployment rate is somewhere between 9 and 12 percent; the inflation rate is as high as 7 or even 10 percent; economic growth since the recession of 2001 has been mediocre, despite a huge surge in the wealth and incomes of the superrich, and we are falling back into recession. If what we have been sold in recent years has been delusional "Pollyanna Creep," what we really need today is a picture of our economy ex-distortion. For what it would reveal is a nation in deep difficulty not just domestically but globally.

Undermeasurement of inflation, in particular, hangs over our heads like a guillotine. To acknowledge it would send interest rates climbing, and thereby would endanger the viability of the massive buildup of public and private debt (from less then $11 trillion in 1987 to $49 trillion last year) that props up the American economy. Moreover, the rising cost of pensions, benefits, borrowing, and interest payments -- all indexed or related to inflation -- could join with the cost of financial bailouts to overwhelm the federal budget. As inflation and interest rates have been kept artificially suppressed, the United States has been indentured to its volatile financial sector, with its predilection for leverage and risky buccaneering.

Arguably, the unraveling has already begun. As Robert Hardaway, a professor at the University at Denver, pointed out last September, the subprime crisis "can be directly traced back to the (1983) Bureau of Labor Statistics decision to exclude the price of housing from the Consumer Price Index...With the illusion of low inflation inducing lenders to offer 6 percent loans, not only speculation run rampant on the expectation of ever-rising home prices, but home buyers by the millions have been tricked into buying homes even though they only qualified for the teaser rates." Were mainstream interest rates to jump into the 7 to 9 percent range -- which could happen if inflation were to spur new concern -- both Washington and Wall Street would be walking in quicksand. The make-believe economy of the past two decades, with its asset bubbles, massive borrowing, and rampant data distortion, would be in serious jeopardy. The U.S. dollar, off more than 40 percent against the euro since 2002, could slip down and even rockier slope.
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Re: CPI updated - is it believable?

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 16 Apr 2008, 18:19:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')The CPI is completely bogus.


Welcome to the dark side! :twisted:

Now, the obfuscation is irrefutably apparent (to us, anyways) in an easily researched product like gasoline. Just imagine the hedonics and heuristics taking place over in areas like "owner's equivalent rent" and agricultural consumables. 8)
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