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THE Rainforest Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby Heineken » Sun 13 Apr 2008, 10:52:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') adore snakes. We have many of them around here, including rattlers. :)


We also have many frogs and toads, which is amazing considering the fact we have no "live" water on the place, just seasonal ponding and run-off. We have 5 or 6 different species of frogs and toads, something I see as a very good sign of the relative health of our little ecosystem.


That's something else we have in common, Ludi.

In another life I must have been a herpetologist. Or a lizard.
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
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"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby Tanada » Sun 13 Apr 2008, 12:29:53

[smilie=icon_cyclops.gif]

The all seeing I sez, snakes are kewl!
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby Lore » Sun 13 Apr 2008, 15:54:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'D')o you have chiggers in Wisconsin?

They are possibly the worst thing about being an outdoors person in the South.


Heineken...

I don't think fire ants have made up to you yet. They just entered NC when I moved there 10 years ago. I was never allergic to any kind of insect bites until I was stung several times by a nest of them. After a trip to the emergency room, it gave me pause and another reason to head farther North.


No fire ants here . . . yet. How far south of the NC/VA border were you, Lore? It freaks me out to think we might actually have them here someday.

I was stung by fire ants ages ago when I was stationed in Texas. Painful indeed.


I was only 3 miles from the border of SC in Charlotte, NC. From their introduction to the area when I first moved there till now they have successfully moved half way up the state.

There is as much red ant insecticide being sold at the local home centers in NC as lawn fertilizer. It's amazing how these little critters can pack such a big wallop. Not only that, they are as aggressive as a swarm of bees and almost as fast to the attack.

Image

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')orth Carolina’s red imported fire ant infestation continues to expand, partially as a result of recent mild winters but more recently due to increased residential and industrial development and subsequent introductions of fire ants in infested sod and nursery stock. Although fire ant stings are not fatal for most people, they are painful. The mounds that the ants build can interfere with the operation of machinery in agricultural fields. It is not practical to eradicate these ants, but their populations can be controlled, and the chance of contact with people can be minimized. LINK:


PS... Since these little guys come from Brazil, it might just be natures revenge for the rain forest!
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby BigTex » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 01:41:13

I marvel at fire ants.

They are so much like us it's scary.

If they haven't come to your neighborhood yet, they will.

They have no predators outside their original habitat, just like us.

The conquer and kill anything that gets in their way, just like us.

They migrate relentlessly, leaving a trail of death and destruction in their wake, just like us.

It's hard to believe that something so small and not obviously dangerous can be such a pest, just like us.

It's hard to imagine that fire ants could ever reach a state of overshoot, partly because the world is so big, and partly because they seem so well equipped to survive, but if you take their worldwide growth in the last 60 years or so and extrapolate it out for more than a few hundred more years, it is obvious they WILL reach a state of overshoot, just like us.

When you have fire ants, you just gradually shift your thinking about any outdoor area into whether there are fire ants there and if so the range of hazards they pose.

They can destabilize foundations.

They can kill livestock.

Their bites HURT, and children have often been bitten several times before they know what's happening.

I applied a fire ant control chemical to my entire lawn this year that will probably cause my dog to grow a second head, but I just got tired of half measures. It was time for the nuclear option. Total fire ant death. Once the radiation clears, I will set up a perimeter around my property and patrol it with maintenance chemicals.

They can have the rest of the world, but if they come to my yard to set up shop, they will die. It's way beyond mindless cruelty at this point. It's time for some justice, and the way I see it fire ants have been doing all the taking and none of the giving for quite some time. So I will pay them back for their ambition with a #10 can of fire ant whupass delivered via the fertilizer spreader, piloted by BigTex.

There is something spooky about any creature with little or no threat from predators. If it's rabbits, you can get you a beagle and a .410 shotgun, but fire ants are much more challenging to control.

Just like us.
:)
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby Ludi » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 10:34:45

We have very few fireants, compared to some neighboring areas. We've found that foraging chickens will destroy nests, as will armadillos. We have many other kinds of ants as well, when "the experts" say fire ants will kill off all other species of ants. A healthy ecosystem seems to resist the ants to a degree.
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby KingDavid » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 10:36:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'I') marvel at fire ants.

They are so much like us it's scary.


Klaatu barrada nikto
Your nemisis ( what 's the f**king plural) seem to have declared war on the US of A, the dirty terrorists. Fire-ants are attracted by electrical fields. Sometimes they choose to nest in traffic lights where they destroy the wiring. And thus causing mayhem and destruction on the american roads. You're fighting a war you can't win, Bigtex. ;)

There is such a diversity in ant species:
*farmers: they collect leaves and grow fungi (which they eat) on them
*hunter-gatherers
*pillagers: they travel around seeking nest of other ant species to plunder, some species keep slaves, some kill everyone and eat their young
*cattle-keepers: they keep plant-louses and live on the sweet excretion of their cattle, yummy yummy
*symbionts: they live in trees or other plants. Some of these hosts have special rooms for the quests (full pension!!!!!!!), the ants protect their home with lives

Ants are amazing. The total weight of all the ants on the globe is about equal to the weight of all the humans. (ok we're comparing one species with many....)
My favorite is the south american weaver ant. Very big but thin, about half an inch long. Very aware.... . They use there puppating young to sow leaves (for nesting).
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby BigTex » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 12:17:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KingDavid', 'Y')ou're fighting a war you can't win, Bigtex. ;)


Perhaps.

Depending upon how "win" is defined.

And how flexible you are with your strategy.

If my definition of "win" is to engage a worthy opponent and fight well, then I think victory in my fire any battle is within reach.

Not to mention that THEY are the invaders, and it is always easier to defend ground than to capture it.

And sometimes the knowledge of eventual future ant victory may provide small ant consolation when faced with day after day of unrelenting death administered in generous quantities from BigTex and his arsenal of ant death implements.

Sort of like a 1/1,000 model of Starship Troopers, except I am regular sized.

Killing ants today can be an end in itself. And that is what I do, ON THE BOUNCE!
:)
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby Heineken » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 13:57:13

Tex, you realize of course that poisoning your ground will only result in resistant fire ants, for the same reason that herbicides are starting not to work on some weed species. In the meantime, yes, you buy some relief---but at what risk to your dog (and yourself)?

I suppose fire ants in Virginia are inevitable, based on Lore's map. We're having incredibly mild winters, one after another. They'd love it here.
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby BigTex » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 14:24:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'T')ex, you realize of course that poisoning your ground will only result in resistant fire ants, for the same reason that herbicides are starting not to work on some weed species. In the meantime, yes, you buy some relief---but at what risk to your dog (and yourself)?


I understand the risk. And if mutants are the result of my method of delivering death, I am willing to face the mutants of tomorrow.

I am thinking of trying to teach my dog's second head to eat fire ants as a preemptive move against the more robust foe I am sure to face in the future.

War is hell, man.
:)
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby Ludi » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 19:41:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'b')ut at what risk to your dog (and yourself)?


Oh we all like a little atrazine in our drinking water!
8O
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby smallpoxgirl » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 19:43:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', 'F')ew thousand years after that, they will discover -----OIL !!


Yeah, well, that may be, but there will always be something we have that they don't. An endoskeleton. :razz:
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby dohboi » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 19:45:12

Ants, even fire ants, perform many important functions, breaking down matter, aerating soil...

If you feel compelled to get rid of them from an area, please look into non-toxic approaches. Boiling water in the heat of a summer afternoon poured into their nest will go a long way toward discouraging them, as I recall from my days in central Georgia.
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby BigTex » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 19:52:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'A')nts, even fire ants, perform many important functions, breaking down matter, aerating soil...

If you feel compelled to get rid of them from an area, please look into non-toxic approaches. Boiling water in the heat of a summer afternoon poured into their nest will go a long way toward discouraging them, as I recall from my days in central Georgia.


The concern I have are the work they are doing underneath my foundation.

I need to shut that project down completely. After that, I am comfortable using the less toxic methods.
:)
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby Ludi » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 19:57:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')The concern I have are the work they are doing underneath my foundation.



Your foundation is so flimsy it is threatened by a fire ant nest?


8O
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby BigTex » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 20:07:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')The concern I have are the work they are doing underneath my foundation.


Your foundation is so flimsy it is threatened by a fire ant nest?

8O


Not exactly. It's sort of like the fire ant Death Star under there. Fighting them anywhere else is pointless if they have an enormous and impregnable setup underneath the house.

Every spring when the weather starts getting nice, I have about 15 mounds that pop up all around the edges of the foundation. I know that these are just outposts for the mother ship. Killing the outposts won't help. I want to kill the mother ship, and I think I have done it.

The few fire ants that remain have a dazed post-apocalyptic look about them. Like they never knew this could happen to them.

The usual diligence you see in ants has been replaced by a malaise that can only come from a severe shock to the assumptions they may have accepted as truth.
:)
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby Ludi » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 20:10:55

You used "Shock and Awe" on them, huh?
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Re: Alright, the rainforests are doomed! We can't save them

Postby BigTex » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 20:35:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'Y')ou used "Shock and Awe" on them, huh?


Yes, except it was different in that they didn't react to my attack by looting all of the objects from my house that had any conceivable value.

They also haven't set up any driveway IEDs. At least not yet. I am keeping an eye on the ants in my neighbor's yard, though, to make sure they don't get any ideas about trying to destabilize the situation.

***

10-4 on splitting this discussion. Fire ants are a large topic and worthy of discussion.

Primarily because they are so much like us.
:)
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