PeakOil is You
We have a choice...
Re: We have a choice...
by mos6507 » Mon 07 Apr 2008, 23:18:38
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'I') used to have long conversations with Herbert Lee Evans. He liked to murder and rape little girls. Late one evening when we both took off our social masks and he realized that I was never going to let him out of prison, he answered my question. Herbert, why did you kill them before you raped them. He said with the calmest of expresions, "I didn't like to hear them bitch." Herbert Lee was evil. The scary part, he looked just like you and me. He was normal in every way, except for his perversions.
Exactly. Redemption is a nice concept and maybe it works in some cases, but I think irredeemably evil people do exist. You can argue all day and night how they became that way, nature vs. nurture, but when someone is THAT rotten, no amount of compassion will help. It's just too late.
I'm also reminded of the Japanese guy who killed and cannabilized a woman. They let the bastard out!
http://japundit.com/archives/2006/02/22/2020/
- mos6507
Re: We have a choice...
by bodigami » Tue 08 Apr 2008, 02:19:42
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Opies', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kakkerlak', '
')
The only thing i do (in thinking) is that i don't look at how we do things now or even what's realisticly possible, but to what should be done. To put it in another way; i judge myself because i'm the only one capabale of knowing my intentions.
A judge or jury is never able to know if i'm sorry for whatever i did and what my intentions are. I could be lying. The feeling of guilt is also a very important factor to take into account. To add to it; punishment, for the sake of punishment, should not be the norm. It's pointless.
')
The only thing i do (in thinking) is that i don't look at how we do things now or even what's realisticly possible, but to what should be done. To put it in another way; i judge myself because i'm the only one capabale of knowing my intentions.
A judge or jury is never able to know if i'm sorry for whatever i did and what my intentions are. I could be lying. The feeling of guilt is also a very important factor to take into account. To add to it; punishment, for the sake of punishment, should not be the norm. It's pointless.
I for the most part agree. I was recently part of a discussion on justice systems and it seems most native groups, especially Native Americans, have a much different view of justice than we do. Rather than judging the person, and saying, this person is a bad criminal, they judge the action, and say, you did a bad thing. I think in that distinction there is a great cleave. Everyone makes mistakes but our justice system labels the person as evil/bad rather than their actions as evil/bad. Seems to me that this kind of a system would breed more criminals, rather than reduce bad actions.
You're right that we are the only ones that can judge ourselves, but the next best thing would be our close friends. Often native americans have a 'circle trial' where family and close friends of the offender and victim come together and sit in a circle and try to help both people. They try to figure out why they did a bad thing because they believe bad actions are a result of being 'sick' or 'out of balance'. There is not a burning hatred for the offender, but rather a desire to help the person so they can learn from their mistakes, be healed, and not make the same mistake.
I like this view because I believe it is much more accurate than ours. I don't think bad people do bad things; I think everybody does bad things, and our goal should be to try and fix and prevent those bad choices rather than incarcerating 'bad people' and locking them up and not giving them, in all reality, any rehabilitative help.
Choices choices choices... they can't all be right, but we can always try.
Indeed, that sounds more like justice... but what about TFSHTF? it's justice of the continuous pillaging of a species in detriment to all other species. I don't want to be the judge of that... but "extinction of said species" is what IMO seems more just... of course I would have prefered an "or evolve the mind of said species" but *sigh* every day I have a bit less hope in humanity... now, hope is mostly in individuals...
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Re: We have a choice...
by kakkerlak » Tue 08 Apr 2008, 08:59:11
To Opies:
Those Native Americans are wise.
You're saying what i think.
About our "justice system";
I have never considered our "justice system" as equal to justice and i don't take the law serious. In practice and theory this means i create my own laws and i place them above the laws of society. When the law and my own ethics are in conflict i will always follow my own (superior) rules. BUT...i will follow the law as good as i can. For me the laws of society are like add-ons or upgrades to my own laws.
The reason for this is very simple. Laws can be changed. What if somehow the law is changed in such a way that it demands you to kill at least one person a day or you go to prison? I know it sounds ridiculous, but just imagine it. Are you going to follow this new law?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('azreal60', 'K')akkerlak, have you by any chance been reading Daniel Quinn?
Those Native Americans are wise.
You're saying what i think.
About our "justice system";
I have never considered our "justice system" as equal to justice and i don't take the law serious. In practice and theory this means i create my own laws and i place them above the laws of society. When the law and my own ethics are in conflict i will always follow my own (superior) rules. BUT...i will follow the law as good as i can. For me the laws of society are like add-ons or upgrades to my own laws.
The reason for this is very simple. Laws can be changed. What if somehow the law is changed in such a way that it demands you to kill at least one person a day or you go to prison? I know it sounds ridiculous, but just imagine it. Are you going to follow this new law?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('azreal60', 'K')akkerlak, have you by any chance been reading Daniel Quinn?
I didn't read any of the books you mentioned, i will search for 'em. I don't even know who Daniel Quinn is. I do remember the name Ishmael, but that is from Moby Dick i believe.
About the rapist:
I strongly believe all humans know the difference between "right" and "wrong" and are able to act according to this knowledge. But we can't deny some people are sick or have their brains "wired" differently. Those people need guidance. So i agree with jboogy;
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jboogy', '"')Judge them not, for they know not what they do"
Have fun!
Roach
As an obsessive perfectionist it is not unusual for me to spend an hour writing and re-writing a single sentence. When abandoning perfection i ask you to judge me on my ideas, not on my words.
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