[jasonraymondson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stratovarius', '2') words: The Monkeysphere

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/monkeysphere.html

The answer to all these questions!

[jasonraymondson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'A')lright, enough of this shit, that was just a rhetorical end to my brilliant 'why do people hate' thread. Give it a rest. Tell me why people hate.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'b')ullshit, what's anti-nature is our technological civilization that destroys nature without constraint. what we do to each other within this technological civilization, to preserve it, can only be anti-nature because it supports the paradigm. If anything, going back to harmony and peace is much more natural than living like hamsters in cages that only want free food and will never be free, even if there current house smells like crap and urine.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ivan_M', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'C')ute, but dogs generally want to rip cat guts apart. I paid $500 once to have a beloved cat stitched up after he was ripped apart by dogs.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'b')ullshit, what's anti-nature is our technological civilization that destroys nature without constraint. what we do to each other within this technological civilization, to preserve it, can only be anti-nature because it supports the paradigm. If anything, going back to harmony and peace is much more natural than living like hamsters in cages that only want free food and will never be free, even if there current house smells like crap and urine.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'T')hat you cann't imagine the evolution of humanity's mind is not my problem. That you think that behaviours that kill the biosphere are natural is semantics, what matters is that this behaviours halt. But why negate the possibility of changing them at the core, at humanity's mind?

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stratovarius', '2') words: The Monkeysphere

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/monkeysphere.html

The answer to all these questions!

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', ' ')The number one cause of death amongst tribal societies was murder.

[Ivan_M]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ivan_M', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'C')ute, but dogs generally want to rip cat guts apart. I paid $500 once to have a beloved cat stitched up after he was ripped apart by dogs.

[Homesteader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ivan_M', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ivan_M', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'C')ute, but dogs generally want to rip cat guts apart. I paid $500 once to have a beloved cat stitched up after he was ripped apart by dogs.

[jboogy]

We can get our indoor dog, the border collie, to go up to the cats and give them a kiss (lick on the face) , we say "give kitty a kiss", and she does. We can also get her to kill the cats if we command her too, we say " get the kitty", or "get 'em Sarah" and her ears perk right up and she runs at the cats growling. I could get her to kill them, all that would be required is for me to continue the "get 'em" command, instead of saying "no Sarah" when she gets close. It's a game to her now, but she would love to kill these cats that she's known for years.

Humans are carnivorous, I believe all carnivores have the innate ability or desire to hurt and kill, it's genetic, it's a part of our psyche that has roots in our prehistoric ancestors. We have a predisposition towards violence, conquest and subjegation that has been a part of our psychological make-up for 100's of thousands of years. The roots are in the competition for food, resources, the cave with the westerly sun, mating access, it's a big piece of who we were, and still are.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', ' ')The number one cause of death amongst tribal societies was murder.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'W')e get our identities by reference to what we are not.

We also evolved in a tribal configuration. Tribal competition, for a time, probably replaced our natural predators as a method of population control.

Now, tribalism is just a leftover appendage from another era. It still gives us a pretext for hating and killing each other, it just doesn't function well as a stand-in for natural predators and membership in a real ecosystem.

Yet another way in which the Industrial Humansphere is inferior to the Biosphere that spawned us.

[Gandalf_the_White]

Don' B eightin' Maan!

Jah no like Maan B eightin'.

Let the funk rule your love!

You know what John Lennon said.

Every day is St. Patties Day.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

[eastbay]

Why can't everyone discuss this topic without all the vile and foul language? I really don't understand why so much swearing is going on.

Can't people discuss a topic without resorting to swearing? I think it's how a lot of unkindness and hatred gets started. Name-calling comes first. Then the punches. Then comes the knives, bullets, and bombs. Then the cycle of hatred is renewed over and over.

Extinguishing hatred starts with the words we choose to use.

Now please SHUT UP with all the swearing!

It will do everyone good!

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'W')hy can't everyone discuss this topic without all the vile and foul language? I really don't understand why so much swearing is going on.

Can't people discuss a topic without resorting to swearing? I think it's how a lot of unkindness and hatred gets started. Name-calling comes first. Then the punches. Then comes the knives, bullets, and bombs. Then the cycle of hatred is renewed over and over.

Extinguishing hatred starts with the words we choose to use.

Now please SHUT UP with all the swearing!

It will do everyone good!

[eastbay]

It's now nice to read rocc's stuff. I used to skip it due to the language. Now I enjoy reading his stuff more!

Quitting cussing is, like, step #1 on the various paths to a 'place' that's better.

Thanks for the support BT.

And yes, I used to be a foul language champion until I found a better path to take. Step #1 is thinking of the harm your words can do and then using kinder words. Some say it's harder than quitting drinking or smoking. But it's well worth the effort.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'T')hank you for raising the point about "isn't everything we do by definition 'natural'?" issue.

That's a tough one, since it's true that we couldn't possibly do anything UNnatural, since we are simply nature's latest experiment with life.

What I am getting at is that, unlike most life forms that blindly act according to instinct, we have a degree of choice in what we do (we could argue this point as well, but assume that we do have the ability to make choices).

Having the ability to make choices, as opposed to simply following instinct in every situation, gives us the POTENTIAL opportunity to DECIDE whether we are going to allow our instinctive drive to conquer, consume and copulate lead us into a state of overshoot from which we will not be able to recover, or whether we will decide to act counterintuitively and attempt to make changes in the way we live so that our species will have a shot at evolutionary durability in a civilized configuration.

I have stated before that the flaw in MonteQuest's reasoning may be that he assumes the human species has the capacity to make a rational decision to change the way it lives today (which WILL make life today more difficult) in the interest of long term sustainability and survival.

I'm just not convinced that making the changes we need to make is within the realm of possibility. I'm not sure there are enough people willing to sign up, and I'm certain that the current rulers would have absolutely no interest in doing away with the system they have spent their whole lives manipulating.

But thanks for raising the "it's all natural" issue, because that is a tough one.

It may be that we are going to be "natural" right up until our self-imposed "natural" extinction.

[Cloud9]

To a large extent, the measure of a man is the nature of his enemies.