Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby BigTex » Sat 05 Apr 2008, 16:19:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'C')an I have permission to slap these people every time they try to get me to sign one of their stupid petitions to ban the use of nuclear power?


First offense = Tyler slap

Second offense = One way trip to the Soylent Green facility
:)
User avatar
BigTex
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3858
Joined: Thu 03 Aug 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Graceland

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sat 05 Apr 2008, 16:50:27

I don't know, I've become kind of violent recently.

First I'm demanding that Hummer drivers get liquified, now I'm slapping Greenpeace.

I should take up meditation.
"www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Tyler_JC
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5438
Joined: Sat 25 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby BigTex » Sat 05 Apr 2008, 17:02:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I') don't know, I've become kind of violent recently.

First I'm demanding that Hummer drivers get liquified, now I'm slapping Greenpeace.

I should take up meditation.


Don't ask zensui for advice.

He's talking about his own killing sprees lately.

The herd is just in an agitated state right now.

...but think about how tasty a Soylent Green batch you could make out of a Greenpeace chapter.
:)
User avatar
BigTex
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3858
Joined: Thu 03 Aug 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Graceland

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 05 Apr 2008, 17:46:53

Oooo, I guess it's all my fault! :roll:
Ludi
 

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sat 05 Apr 2008, 18:54:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'O')ooo, I guess it's all my fault! :roll:


Yes. I can just see you standing in front of every bulldozer, picketing every wind power project, burning down every green development...your treachery knows no bounds!

I don't know if I'd hang around the town square if I were you, the angry mob might be looking for someone to tar and feather.

Of course, they could only glue and feather you because tar is a petroleum derivative. :lol:
"www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Tyler_JC
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5438
Joined: Sat 25 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby BigTex » Sun 06 Apr 2008, 01:50:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'O')ooo, I guess it's all my fault! :roll:


Sorry Ludi if you are a Greenpeace member.

I was picturing a batch of anonymous Greenpeace members as Soylent Green soup stock, not a fellow forum member.
:)
User avatar
BigTex
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3858
Joined: Thu 03 Aug 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Graceland

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby Electric_Economy_2025 » Sun 06 Apr 2008, 02:41:09

What happens to the enviromentalist and thier legal teams, if the government says that new nuclear power plants are to be fast tracked and built do to national security ?
User avatar
Electric_Economy_2025
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue 01 Apr 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 06 Apr 2008, 09:07:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'O')ooo, I guess it's all my fault! :roll:


Sorry Ludi if you are a Greenpeace member.

I was picturing a batch of anonymous Greenpeace members as Soylent Green soup stock, not a fellow forum member.


Actually Tex, I was a Greenpeace supporter and a member of my local environmental group back in the late 80's and early 90's, until I realized that most of them hated humanity and were not willing to change. I think the group pretty much disolved in 1994 after a chapter PETA member started a pissing contest with the College administration. That incident chased away half the members and eventually, myself.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17094
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA
Top

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 06 Apr 2008, 11:29:00

No, the only environmental type organizations I belong to are Bat Conservation International and the Texas Ornithological Society.


BatCon


The reason I don't support nuke plants is because I'm a DBISEY (Don't Build In Someone Else's Yard) and my region doesn't have enough water to support nuke plants (or any kind of large-scale energy generation). I don't support any kind of new large-scale energy generation schemes. But at the same time, I'm not off in someone else's yard telling them they can't build a nuke plant (at least 2 new nukes are planned for Texas, last I heard).
Ludi
 

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby TheDude » Sun 06 Apr 2008, 23:50:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'L')uddites, liberals, and NIMBYs are far from the only things holding back nuclear power builds - remember the Washington Public Power Supply System, better known as WPPSS (i.e., "Woops")? 2.25 billion dollar bond default, one reactor out of five actually built. Quite the boondoggle.



But the reason four out of the five failed to be completed was court challenges coupled with regulatory ratcheting. Every time they started making progress the psuedo-green luddites took them to court and when that failed they had friends in high places pressure the AEC and then the NRC to increase regulations. Without a stable design there is no way to build on time and on budget. Eventually WPPSS threw in the towel and cancelled, which is a damn shame. Because they cancelled all those plants CA had to build a shitload of NG fired peaking plants in the 1990's, and NG is now the most expensive way to make electricity.


Nukes aren't used for peaking, they would've needed added generation anyway - or reduced demand/increased efficiency/dependence on sources like hydro. Whether WWPPS could've been pulled off sans all those freshly hatched Gaia loving hippies having their say I couldn't tell you - certainly the name of the game in the PNW all my life has been NIMBY and then some - look at the current staunch opposition to LNG.

But plenty of what went on was just ridiculous - this short history mentions a pipe hanger being redesigned 17 times. That's messed up. I'm not for working off a standard design of plant that proves to be flawed down the line, but how about implementing standardized bureaucratic models?

I'm not dead opposed to splitting atoms, either - just want it to be done right. My biggest fear is a crash program of plants in the wake of blackouts that aren't much of an improvement over RBMKs.
Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
And let me tell you something: I dig your work.
User avatar
TheDude
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 4896
Joined: Thu 06 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Top

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 07 Apr 2008, 00:34:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', ' ')My biggest fear is a crash program of plants in the wake of blackouts



The liberal luddites have blocked and sued and stopped construction of every nuke in the US for the last 30 years. The scare campaigns in the MSM and their obstructionist legal strategy worked nicely for them.

However, when oil goes to $500-1000 bucks a barrel and people either can't get oil or can't afford to to heat their homes or run their cars, and blackouts hit the cities the US will have little option but to build some nukes to augment the electrical power grid. [smilie=5shocking.gif]
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby SchroedingersCat » Mon 07 Apr 2008, 00:50:11

If someone comes up with a nice plug and play nuke plant that is standardized and can be safely operated the public would be behind it in a hurry. Current plants are dangerous because they are mostly built on technology that is decades old. We've come a long way in our understanding of safety and critical systems.

How about small, local plants that are fueled with some kind of sealed drum of nuclear material. It gets loaded in, used and removed with little or no risk. Let's see nimby's et al fight that.

This is one area that technology could be used to fix the problem but nobody seems to be looking at the right solution.
Civilization is a personal choice.
SchroedingersCat
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 541
Joined: Thu 26 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: The ragged edge

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 07 Apr 2008, 01:01:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SchroedingersCat', 'I')f someone comes up with a nice plug and play nuke plant that is standardized and can be safely operated the public would be behind it in a hurry. Current plants are dangerous because they are mostly built on technology that is decades old. We've come a long way in our understanding of safety and critical systems.

How about small, local plants that are fueled with some kind of sealed drum of nuclear material. It gets loaded in, used and removed with little or no risk. Let's see nimby's et al fight that.

This is one area that technology could be used to fix the problem but nobody seems to be looking at the right solution.


Toshiba has a nice small, local nuclear power plant that they are testing.

Toshiba's small local nuke

Negotiations are underway to try one for the remote "off the grid" villages here in interior Alaska that bring in much of their fuel by air freight and face horrendous fuel prices, but the NIMBY liberal luddites are blocking it.

The liberal anti-nuke luddites and the liberal MSM have opposed nukes for more than 40+ years in the US. A new simple safe design isn't going to convince the luddites to support nukes---Its all about fear-mongering for them, not rationality. They'll never stop trying to make people afraid of nukes and they'll never stop blocking new plants.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 07 Apr 2008, 03:38:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')The liberal anti-nuke luddites and the liberal MSM have opposed nukes for more than 40+ years in the US. A new simple safe design isn't going to convince the luddites to support nukes---Its all about fear-mongering for them, not rationality. They'll never stop trying to make people afraid of nukes and they'll never stop blocking new plants.


How can you be for Obama when you are using the word liberal like an epithet and casting the MSM (Fox News excepted I hope) as liberal stooges the way Rush Limbaugh does?
mos6507
 
Top

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 07 Apr 2008, 06:55:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', '
')Nukes aren't used for peaking, they would've needed added generation anyway - or reduced demand/increased efficiency/dependence on sources like hydro. Whether WWPPS could've been pulled off sans all those freshly hatched Gaia loving hippies having their say I couldn't tell you - certainly the name of the game in the PNW all my life has been NIMBY and then some - look at the current staunch opposition to LNG.

I'm not dead opposed to splitting atoms, either - just want it to be done right. My biggest fear is a crash program of plants in the wake of blackouts that aren't much of an improvement over RBMKs.


The NPP solution would have worked great in the NW, all those hydroplants that already exist would have become peaking plants with the fission plants becoming the baseload plants.

The French used a 'crash program' to convert their entire grid from 3% to 80% Nuclear in ten years, by using standardized designs. The USA has had improved standardized designs for almost 20 years, but until recently nobody was even willing to try filing the paperwork to get approval to build one of them.

The red tape is so extensive that the current estimates are from four to six years just to get permission to build, and that is using sites where plants already exist and all the site information is on hand. Using a virgin site would take two years or more longer!

No project funded by private sources should take more than a year to get through any approval process, it should be denied or approved on its merits within that time frame. The Luddite hope now is, if they drag everything out long enough the companies will give up and withdraw their permits. The only reason any companies are going forward is, Nuclear is now the cheapest source except for big Hydro projects that never get approval today.

Does it strike anyone as odd that the Luddites have specifically been targeting the cheapest methods we know of for producing electricity? They claim we need to be green, but whenever someone wants to build a large wind farm they target that too.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17094
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA
Top

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby Battle_Scarred_Galactico » Mon 07 Apr 2008, 12:25:24

Another sneak peek of the scapegoating to come.

What do you think its' going to be like when we're actually having power outages ?
---
Battle_Scarred_Galactico
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 935
Joined: Thu 07 Apr 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 07 Apr 2008, 12:43:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')The liberal anti-nuke luddites and the liberal MSM have opposed nukes for more than 40+ years in the US. A new simple safe design isn't going to convince the luddites to support nukes---Its all about fear-mongering for them, not rationality. They'll never stop trying to make people afraid of nukes and they'll never stop blocking new plants.


How can you be for Obama when you are using the word liberal like an epithet and casting the MSM (Fox News excepted I hope) as liberal stooges the way Rush Limbaugh does?


The word "liberal" isn't an epithet. It isn't an accolade either. And it doesn't even have a constant meaning....leftist and/or liberal views aren't even consistent from country to country.

The world is more complicated than that.

Its a simple fact that liberal anti-nuke luddites and leftists and the liberal MSM have blocked nuclear power in the US. In contrast, the left in France has backed nuclear power, and France today gets over 70% of its electricity from nuclear power plants. I think liberals and leftists who blocked nuclear power in the US are partly to blame for the very high US CO2 emissions and global warming caused by the coal-fired power plants that had to be built instead. Liberals and leftists in the US who blocked nuclear power plants will be partly to blame if the US tries to "catch up" with France by starting a crash nuclear power program to reduce CO2 and to offset dropping oil imports.


It is best to independently judge liberal and conversative policies and their results on a case-by-case basis and not just blindly accept everything that the liberal MSM or conservative talk radio promote or that US "liberal" or "conservative" politicans promote.

cheers! :-D
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 07 Apr 2008, 23:56:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')The word "liberal" isn't an epithet.


It's sure is in juxtaposition with "luddite" and "liberal MSM" (i.e. a vast left-wing conspiracy mayhap?).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Its a simple fact that liberal anti-nuke luddites and leftists and the liberal MSM have blocked nuclear power in the US.


The world isn't that simple. The reason nuclear power has been blocked is:

a) 3-mile island and Chernobyl freaked out EVERYONE, not just "anti-nuke luddites and leftists and the liberal MSM".

b) We didn't NEED nukes since fossil fuel has been cheap (i.e. domestic coal and natural gas) nor did we truly understand the pollution problems.

c) We were too DUMB to know the right way to build nukes (i.e. the France way) so people evaluating nuke plans always ran the numbers according to our inefficient "every plant is a one-off prototype" approach.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')I think liberals and leftists who blocked nuclear power in the US are partly to blame for the very high US CO2 emissions and global warming caused by the coal-fired power plants that had to be built instead.


There is no shortage of blame to go around. Not sure how much the "blame game" helps us now.
mos6507
 
Top

Re: Why Doesn't The Government Ramp Up Nuclear?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 08 Apr 2008, 01:23:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '"')blame game"....


The game is still in progress.

The same kind of liberal luddites and the same kind of clowns in the MSM media that did all they could to scare people and derail nuclear power in the US are still at it today.

liberal luddites still out to stop nukes

The latest energy bill passed in late 2007 by the new dem Congress chopped off the funding for nuclear research in the U.S.---the current dem Congress seems to think that oil is unlimited, and if those evil speculators somehow cause it to get a bit expensive we'll all be just fine with wind power and solar power.

Cheers! :)
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Top

Previous

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron