[raisinbran]

Of course this question is moot for this forum.. "Of course it is! That's what this entire site is about!"

I also believed in peak oil. I've followed the story intensely for nearly a year... digesting nearly every bit of updates, new data, and chart analyses I can find. I know plenty about it and it is becoming more and more real as the price of oil is going up.

So why do I ask this question?

Let me propose another viewpoint, a viewpoint I rarely have ever seen considered in all of the peak oil material I have ever read. I want to know what you all think.


We know that the greater part of the financial system of this country is controlled by Wall Street, the Government, the Fed, etc. The bills we use to pay for everything is controlled.

Our gas, our cars, our food, much of what we live on, is also controlled, by a relatively few people like big oil companies and automakers.

But for some reason, very few people seem to understand that oil production, like all these other things, can also be controlled. Few would argue how extraordinarily important a resource oil is.

For example, if a few guys in Shell or Exxon wanted to deprive the entire country of its oil, all they have to do is simply cease their operations. The effects of such a move would be tremendous. The control of oil production has tremendous power. It's like a few guys can "pull the plug" on society any time they want to. They control it.

Yet, quite frankly, the entire idea behind peak oil is simply that oil production is beyond our control, beyond the government's, beyond saudi arabia's control, beyond the oil company's control. Furthermore, the entire idea of peak oil is predicated on the assumption that the U.S. government and many other countries always pump all the oil they ever find. Its as though the US government and all the oil companies simply pumped all the reserves everywhere, without giving thought to the idea that they could ever run out. And then, oops, years later they realized they pumped too much, and now they are screwed.

Now don't get me wrong, peak oil does make sense scientifically and geologically. Oil certainly does appear to be finite, and all the reasoning behind it makes it seem like, yes, the world will start declining in oil eventually.

But what I'm wondering is "Is that what is really happening?"
Certainly governments, companies, and people in control of things realized how much power controlling the oil can have. They can bring any country or any people to its knees easily by just depriving them of oil.

Back then, they probably also realized that if their own government ever ran out of oil, they would be at the mercy of other countries. For example, today the U.S. appears to be at the mercy of many other countries, even Mexico. Certainly, if mexico wanted to screw the U.S. today, all they would have to do is stop exporting oil. Saudi Arabia, Canada, etc. all could also if they wanted to.

Peak oil, the entire theory, suggests that people in office in the U.S. back in the 50's or so were dumb enough not to have foreseen that eventually the sovereignty of the U.S. would crumble because it would rely on other countries for oil when they just used up all of theirs.

While we don't know what the politicians were thinking, what I'm getting at is the entire theory somewhat plays down, or ignores altogether, the political influence that is exerted on oil production.
It's as though no politician, president, visionary, corporate executive, etc. only a humble geologist named Hubbert, ever considered the possibility that oil could run out and have devastating political consequences eventually. It's like nobody saw this disaster coming.

When power is the prize, the rules of the game seem to change completely.

[Cashmere]

I agree with the possibility you've posed.

But, assuming it's possible, you'd have to supply the following - - -

Why?

Why stage the moon landings? National pride, demonstrable evidence that Capitalism is beating Communism . . .

Why run a false flag 911? Obtain grounds for unlimited war.

Why mislead the public about the state of the economy? Keep the game going longer.

Why withhold oil and drive the world economy into the ground?

[mos6507]

Here is your answer to everything:

[Schadenfreude]

A market like oil cannot be controlled without the cooperation of producers and consumers alike.

OPEC was formed to control the oil market. How well did OPEC do? At best, they were able to keep prices somewhat stable, avoiding the pronounced swings that oil is subject to. But even in that, they were not always successful.

If you assert that the ability of powerful interests can thwart the basic laws of supply and demand in the biggest market on Planet Earth for an extended period of time, then you have shown all of modern economics to be a fraud. And while economics may not be a popular subject here on PO.com, it is most assuredly NOT a fraud. Human beings actually do obey the Law of Supply and Demand in their daily actions of buying and selling goods.

[TheDude]

What's the ring say mos6507? "Hugs and kisses, Bandar"?

[greenworm]

Funny how this thread makes it down to the open discussion viewing area.

[Tyler_JC]

Please stop drinking the conspiracy kool-aid, it's not good for your mental stability.

Don't you think that the world's 10 trillion dollar energy market is a little too complicated to be manipulated by a few masters of the universe in Washington?

I understand that some people feel the need to create a God to explain the complicated world around them but this one is a little much.

Think about this from a game theory prospective.

The energy market is a classic prisoner's dilemma, the temptation to defect is simply too great for everyone to fall in line.

If ONE country or company breaks the rules and overproduces, and the result would be unbelievably profitably for the producer, the ENTIRE system collapses.

Which is more likely? That the entire world is just a collection of people attempting to maximize their happiness or that the entire world is full of weak people who obey an overlord that neither I nor anyone else has ever heard of.

Again, I'm begging you, take a break from the internet.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('raisinbran', 'L')et me propose another viewpoint, a viewpoint I rarely have ever seen considered in all of the peak oil material I have ever read. I want to know what you all think.

Suppose, for a minute, that much of what we see in this world is controlled. Of course we know the media is controlled, few would argue against corporate media, influencing the kind of message that we hear, for example, "War on Terror."

[Alcassin]

Peak Oil is uploaded to current version of matrix

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('raisinbran', ' ') It's as though no politician, president, visionary, corporate executive, etc. only a humble geologist named Hubbert, ever considered the possibility that oil could run out and have devastating political consequences eventually. It's like nobody saw this disaster coming.

[Tyler_JC]

Politicians get it. They just don't know what to do about it.

[shameless plug] At the Tufts University Alternative Energy Conference last Saturday I got the chance to talk about peak oil with a congressman from Connecticut. He says that in earlier sessions, his colleagues did not think about energy issues as one of their top 5 issues. That's changed with $100 oil.

Now it's one of the leading sources of emails from constituents. People are calling up their representatives and demanding solutions.

As such, committees are sprouting up like dandelions to come up with some kind of solution.

They are getting mountains of advice. Some of it is good advice, some of it sucks. Some of it comes from solar power companies, some of it comes from environmentalists, and some of it comes from lobbyists from the Clean Coal Industry.

They aren't scientists, they are civil servants. It takes them a while to separate the wheat from the chaff. I'm confident that given enough time, they will be able to find the appropriate solution.

Unfortunately, we don't have 500 years...

On the other hand, we don't really need their support, we just need them to get out of the fucking way while private industry solves this.

The LEED headquarters in California has a world class water purification system that converts gray water into usable drinking water...and the city of Santa Monica won't let them turn it on.

I wish the government was incompetent. It's worse than incompetent, it's a brick wall.

Thankfully, that wall is starting to come down.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'P')oliticians get it. They just don't know what to do about it. ..



As such, committees are sprouting up like dandelions to come up with some kind of solution. ..



I'm confident that given enough time, they will be able to find the appropriate solution.

Unfortunately, we don't have 500 years...

On the other hand, we don't really need their support, we just need them to get out of the fucking way while private industry solves this.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')If Mexico wanted to screw us, they would stop exporting Mexicans

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'D')on't you think that the world's 10 trillion dollar energy market is a little too complicated to be manipulated by a few masters of the universe in Washington?

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'D')on't you think that the world's 10 trillion dollar energy market is a little too complicated to be manipulated by a few masters of the universe in Washington?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', ' ')
Researching stuff posted on internet blogs by unaccountable loonies is entertaining but it pales in comparison to first hand knowledge.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', ' ')
Researching stuff posted on internet blogs by unaccountable loonies is entertaining but it pales in comparison to first hand knowledge.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')Not necessarily a problem today

[Narz]

Tex, what's a "cornie"?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')Not necessarily a problem today