Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Every human needs to watch this

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Every human needs to watch this

Unread postby Armageddon » Tue 01 Apr 2008, 21:38:57

I also believe in Jesus, but he is not part of a mysterious trinity. He is God's son, not God in the flesh. I am not going to have a religious debate either.
User avatar
Armageddon
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7450
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: St.Louis, Mo

Re: Every human needs to watch this

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Tue 01 Apr 2008, 23:08:33

There is a particular conspiratorial notion in the film that I don't accept as being remotely plausible. That is that the elites deliberately set out to make American kids stupid or "dumbed down." That's absurd. It could only be the unintended side effects of a lot of different currents. No doubt there was an effort back at the the beginning of the last century to get kids used to bells and strict timing and discipline. But I don't see that as an attempt to "dumb them down." The problem with falling intellectual achievement is a post-WWII phenomenon which didn't really get going until the 60's and the increasing tide of entertainment and great affluence. There are many other cultural factors in the mix. The primary reasons seem to be distraction and cultural chaos. Now I'm not defending the scumbag evil elites but there was no gang of plutocrats plotting to make American kids stupid. That's just the way it turned for most. Besides, the elites are looking pretty dumb themselves these days. POTUS is pretty elite. CEO of Bear Stearns is pretty elite, etc.
Turn those Machines back On! - Don Ameche in Trading Places
User avatar
PenultimateManStanding
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11363
Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Neither Here Nor There

Re: Every human needs to watch this

Unread postby TWilliam » Tue 01 Apr 2008, 23:58:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')here is a particular conspiratorial notion in the film that I don't accept as being remotely plausible. That is that the elites deliberately set out to make American kids stupid or "dumbed down."


Read Gatto's Underground History of American Education, PMS. I daresay you'll have a different opinion. The goal of compulsory schooling is not, and has never been "thoughtful, independently-minded individuals capable of critical analysis".
"It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
User avatar
TWilliam
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 04:00:00

Re: Every human needs to watch this

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Wed 02 Apr 2008, 00:25:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')here is a particular conspiratorial notion in the film that I don't accept as being remotely plausible. That is that the elites deliberately set out to make American kids stupid or "dumbed down."


Read Gatto's Underground History of American Education, PMS. I daresay you'll have a different opinion. The goal of compulsory schooling is not, and has never been "thoughtful, independently-minded individuals capable of critical analysis".
I've checked out his writings. The goal of education is not ""thoughtful, independently-minded individuals capable of critical analysis"," it is an understanding of grammar, language, mathematics and history. The whole "thoughtful, independently-minded individuals capable of critical analysis" is a shibboleth, as in "a common saying or belief with little current meaning or truth."
Turn those Machines back On! - Don Ameche in Trading Places
User avatar
PenultimateManStanding
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11363
Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Neither Here Nor There

Re: Every human needs to watch this

Unread postby TWilliam » Wed 02 Apr 2008, 00:34:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')he goal of education is not ""thoughtful, independently-minded individuals capable of critical analysis"," it is an understanding of grammar, language, mathematics and history.


You are correct, to a point. The goal is just enough of those things to produce a compliant, docile workforce capable of doing the job (whatever it happens to be).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he whole "thoughtful, independently-minded individuals capable of critical analysis" is a shibboleth, as in "a common saying or belief with little current meaning or truth."


Yes well... the operative phrase there is "little current meaning". That was not the case prior to the widespread adoption of compulsory schooling in this country.
"It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
User avatar
TWilliam
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Every human needs to watch this

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Wed 02 Apr 2008, 00:46:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')he goal of education is not ""thoughtful, independently-minded individuals capable of critical analysis"," it is an understanding of grammar, language, mathematics and history.


You are correct, to a point. The goal is just enough of those things to produce a compliant, docile workforce capable of doing the job (whatever it happens to be).
You choose to use words such as 'compliant' and 'docile'. I think I have the point of view well known in Chinese history that the young should be willing to let their elders steer them along into their place as future elders. That implies "compliant." Of course, if the elders are deranged then all bets are off. Such is human history.
Turn those Machines back On! - Don Ameche in Trading Places
User avatar
PenultimateManStanding
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11363
Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Neither Here Nor There
Top

Re: Every human needs to watch this

Unread postby TWilliam » Wed 02 Apr 2008, 01:09:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')ou choose to use words such as 'compliant' and 'docile'. I think I have the point of view well known in Chinese history that the young should be willing to let their elders steer them along into their place as future elders. That implies "compliant."


I don't disagree with that. What you describe, at least in the context of being an economically productive individual, is what I believe was referred to as apprenticeship in times past. Modern schooling isn't even on the same planet by comparison (and I don't mean in a positive sense).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')f course, if the elders are deranged then all bets are off. Such is human history.


Indeed...
"It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
User avatar
TWilliam
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Previous

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron