[Kaj]

I am not so worried about the potential for technologies to produce a die off. I am more worried about the power of technologies to supress societies and crush revolutionary potential. I worry that the human element of warfare will become increasingly irrelevent.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pedalling_faster', '
')we're already seeing a controlled die-off. in Iraq, for example, using nuclear devices, for real (hundreds of tons of depleted uranium).

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kaj', 'I') am not so worried about the potential for technologies to produce a die off. I am more worried about the power of technologies to supress societies and crush revolutionary potential. I worry that the human element of warfare will become increasingly irrelevent.

[Kaj]

1. Revolutionary potential can do little to change our fate.
If by 'fate' you mean having the authoritarian boot stamped over us all (my worst fear) then I disagree. At least in the present day. If people wanted revolution they could make it happen. It would take just 10% of a capital city to overturn a government.

Revolutions were working well in environment of expanding economy.
Sorry, don't understand that comment? Do you mean that revolutions will stop when the economy shrinks?

2. Resources crunch, food production crunch and environmental mess will stale and soon after that reverse technological progress.
I wish I could believe that. However, scientific knowlege isn't going to regress. We have everything written down. People are going to continue to write down new scientific theory, by candlelight if they have to.
Also there is always going to be energy in the system somewhere. Chances are it will remain be monopolised by the rich. Chances are they will find inventive uses for that energy.

You don't need very high tech to suppress societies either.
Militias armed with AK-47 will do and these are cheaper to run.
True, but militias aren't always reliable. Maliki's recent militia performance is a good example. Sometimes you just need a remote controlled insectoid robot stormtrooper.

[Specop_007]

The nice thing about the US of A. Our founding fathers built revolution right into the operation of the government. Its called the "vote". Dont like the current individuals? Vote them out.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kaj', '[')i]1. Revolutionary potential can do little to change our fate.
If by 'fate' you mean having the authoritarian boot stamped over us all (my worst fear) then I disagree. At least in the present day. If people wanted revolution they could make it happen. It would take just 10% of a capital city to overturn a government.

[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')he nice thing about the US of A. Our founding fathers built revolution right into the operation of the government. Its called the "vote". Dont like the current individuals? Vote them out.

[hornofhubris]

Ron Paul. ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding
Just hang my kewpie doll on my big horn.

And don't call them the Pentagon's Cyborg Insects.
Use their given names.

George Bush and Dick Cheney.

Wait until we have to drop food before we invade so
the cameras don't catch us killing starving people.

[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hornofhubris', 'R')on Paul. ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding
Just hang my kewpie doll on my big horn.

[Kaj]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', ' ')You do not understand that peoples will demand this authoritarian boot to step over their faces.
Once troubles arrived, they will just demand government to do something about it, regardless what that might be.

[Kaj]

N.B. How do I explain the fact that the rich/poor divide is so wide and yet revolution seems to be on the decline?

This is because neoliberalism has yet to be completely deligitimised. All the economic institutions, like most banks, still support this senseless project and people go along with it, while it brings the toys in.
But once the fallacies of infinite growth have been exposed (a decade more of PO should do it) you will see an explosive demand for an alternative economic model that doesn't favour the few.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kaj', '
')Actually you will find me saying similar things in the 'Will America have a Revolution thread'. I presume you are talking mainly about the Western world? I am well aware of the power of manipulation that keeps people passive. Its not a foregone conclusion, however.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kaj', 'N').B. How do I explain the fact that the rich/poor divide is so wide and yet revolution seems to be on the decline?

This is because neoliberalism has yet to be completely deligitimised. All the economic institutions, like most banks, still support this senseless project and people go along with it, while it brings the toys in.
But once the fallacies of infinite growth have been exposed (a decade more of PO should do it) you will see an explosive demand for an alternative economic model that doesn't favour the few.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')he nice thing about the US of A. Our founding fathers built revolution right into the operation of the government. Its called the "vote". Dont like the current individuals? Vote them out.

[Kaj]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')In environment of starving masses it is not much what one can do to change their fate.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')he nice thing about the US of A. Our founding fathers built revolution right into the operation of the government. Its called the "vote". Dont like the current individuals? Vote them out.

[Kaj]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is nothing much, what you can redistribute in collapsing first world capitalist societies.
Plenty of paper wealth, useless suburban infrastructure, gadgetry which will turn useless in collapse environment etc.
Could you name few examples of assets in such societies, which you would like to redistribute so we get some detailed subject to discuss?

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kaj', '
')Yes there is, its called land reform. Much of the starvation of the world is unecessary, involving situations where export plantations owned by a privileged few truck out all their produce so that Western restaurants and supermarkets and consumers can chuck half of it on the garbage. South American countries have enough food to feed themselves. It is a disgrace that starvation should occur there.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'T')he nice thing about the US of A. Our founding fathers built revolution right into the operation of the government. Its called the "vote". Dont like the current individuals? Vote them out.

[Ferretlover]

May 28th, 2008
Pentagon preparing for presidential transition
Posted: 08:19 AM ET
WASHINGTON (CNN) — The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has ordered his top military personnel to start planning for the post-election period, CNN has learned.
Admiral Michael Mullen ordered last week that a military team be established to identify what needs to be done to brief the president-elect, and identify possible vulnerabilities to national security in the transition period, said a military official with knowledge of the chairman’s actions.
The military official said the team will consider the top military issues for the new president. The list is expected to include Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan.
The official emphasized that there is no current intelligence indicating a specific threat to the country during the transition, but that Mullen is simply planning for the potential of “foes that want to take advantage” of that time frame.
Link