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Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby whereagles » Mon 31 Mar 2008, 07:04:59

bluemotion/bluetec technology cuts NOx emissions by a bunch too.
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby Gerben » Mon 31 Mar 2008, 14:43:25

That E95 Saab looks promising. Diesel technology is efficient. I knew the car manufacturers were working on gasoline powered diesel engines, but this looks even better.
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 31 Mar 2008, 15:55:20

Diesel at my four local stations is all firmly stuck at $4.29 as it has been for the last three weeks, however I learned yesterday that one of the three stations which also carry Kerosene has it going for $3.99. Now you get around 5% less milage with Kerosene, but it might feel less painful if you fill up from that pump.
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby skeptik » Mon 31 Mar 2008, 17:26:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('xarkz', 'd')iesel is cheaper in many countries in europe. Is it subsidized there?


There is currently very little spread between Diesel and Gasoline here in Spain. Prices as per February this year translated into $ per US gallon using current exchange rate

Diesel - $6.21 per US gallon
Gasoline - $6.46 per US gallon ( regular unleaded)

Is the huge spread between gas and diesel in the USA something to do with refinery availablity?

source for current European prices
http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/eupetrolprices/

tax regime is not constant across the EU - varies from country to country.

Small engined diesel cars are very popular in Spain. I prefer a small diesel to the equivalent petrol engine for the better low end torque (most of my driving is urban and suburban), and much better mileage. My other vehicle, which I use more than the car, is a 125cc 4 stroke Honda scooter - SH125i. Gives 100 to 130mpg (imperial) according to how you drive it. Scooters are very popular in Spain, especially in the larger towns and cities where car parking is a nightmare.

Most Spanish gas stations stock two qualities of diesel - regular truck grade and superdiesel suitable for passenger vehicles (no smelly exhaust and can be used with a with a catalytic converter) plus one grade of petrol, regular unleaded.
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby frankthetank » Mon 31 Mar 2008, 19:48:18

Subaru is suppose to be bringing a diesel out. The numbers looked very good.

Diesel still stuck at 4.10 here.
lawns should be outlawed.
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby idomar » Mon 31 Mar 2008, 20:09:12

Diesel in central London, within 2 miles from my home:

Dearest: £125.9p per litre
Cheapest: £112.9p per litre

bugger!
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby Pholostan » Tue 01 Apr 2008, 12:21:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skeptik', '
')source for current European prices
http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/eupetrolprices/


Nice link. Diesel is now priced abowe petrol here in Sweden. First time anyone can remember. Diesel have always been quite cheap.
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby Pholostan » Tue 01 Apr 2008, 12:53:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '
')I would have to think that those would be some pretty significant mods to get that to work... but I'm the first to confess that engines are not my forte.


Do you mean the tourqe/power or the emission reductions? The car have been modified by a well known swedish tuning firm, BSR. They are known for their high power engines. They list in a swedish article modifications to the combustion chambers, fuel system and software. The reduction in emissions is almost only due to the fuel E95 (EtamaxD). The company SEKAB makes and sells that fuel here in Sweden. It is about 95% ethanol and the rest is ignition improver and denaturing (MTBE, isobutanol).

Both trucking companies SCANIA and VOLVO have made engines for that fuel in the past, mainly buses and the like. Now they have made new engines tuned for E95 that have close to the same MPG as the diesel ones! Despite that ethanol has less energy per liter. This is impressing IMHO.

BSR have made the same thing with a ordinary diesel car, they state that fuel consumption is almost the same on E95 as on ordinary diesel. I would think the consumption is noticably higher on E95, but it still makes for an impressive improvement in efficiency.

But I'm more impressed by the reduction in emissions. Would make diesels truly clean, as the particle problem on ordinary diesels is quite grave indeed (don't mention NOx or CO2 ;). I want a small commuter car with a small engine that runs on E95. It would have close to the same milage as a ordinary diesel one, but almost none of the harmful emissions. Fuel availbility is a question, though there are fillings stations planned already. See:


Press Release form SEKAB (PDF)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Ethanol also for lorries


Both Scania and Volvo have developed lorry engines that can operate using
renewable ethanol. The Swedish bioenergy company SEKAB is planning to have
in place an initial network of filling stations for E95 by 2010. E95 is the fuel
used by buses and lorries in place of diesel.

"We already supply E95 to those towns that have ethanol buses and municipal vehicles
like rubbish trucks with ethanol engines," says Per Carstedt, CEO of SEKAB. “The lorries
use the same fuel as buses. This is a different blend compared to the ethanol used for
private cars (E85). Instead they have 95 per cent ethanol and five per cent ignition
improver.”

In the initial phase, there will be 6-10 filling stations for E95 along major highways like
E4 and E6 and at special lorry terminals. In two years, the fist ethanol lorries for long-
distance transports will be available on the market. As the number of long-distant
vehicles with ethanol engines increases, the number of filling stations will gradually be
expanded. Their exact locations have not yet been determined.

"We are assuming that the number will be sufficient to comfortably serve heavy lorry and
buses in national long-distant traffic," says Per Carstedt. “These types of lorries have fue
tanks that can hold about 1000 litres of ethanol. Since the new ethanol engines
developed by Scania have the same energy efficiency of diesel engines, their range will
be more than sufficient.”

SEKAB has previously built a network of filling stations and already supplies ethanol to
over 1000 filling stations for E85. The required investments in each new filling station ar
modest.

"We see no problems with guaranteeing a sufficiently effective distribution system the
day Scania and Volvo begin offering their customers heavy lorries with ethanol engines,"
says Per Carstedt.

For the next stage, SEKAB is planning to also develop E95 distribution on two other
major Scania and Volvo markets – Brazil and Great Britain. After this, the other Nordic
countries are judged to be most promising.
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby Zardoz » Tue 01 Apr 2008, 21:59:00

Image

Costa Mesa, California, this morning.
"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby Troyboy1208 » Wed 02 Apr 2008, 01:50:40

Holy shit batman
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby Pholostan » Wed 02 Apr 2008, 15:02:18

$4.49 a gallon is about 7.12 SEK per liter. Diesel is 12.99 SEK around here. That's $8.20 a gallon folks. Buisness as usual, though there has been some complaining about prices lately. Nothing special though, people always compain about fuel prices. You people still have a long way to go, $4.49 is cheap.
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 02 Apr 2008, 15:39:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pholostan', '$')4.49 a gallon is about 7.12 SEK per liter. Diesel is 12.99 SEK around here. That's $8.20 a gallon folks. Buisness as usual, though there has been some complaining about prices lately. Nothing special though, people always compain about fuel prices. You people still have a long way to go, $4.49 is cheap.


No it's not, we don't get "free" medical coverage over here.
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby frankthetank » Wed 02 Apr 2008, 17:34:51

Diesel actually dropped here...4.05 now.

At least over in Sweden you aren't penalized for using less, or being born to the wrong family or the wrong color.
lawns should be outlawed.
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby DantesPeak » Sat 05 Apr 2008, 15:32:07

Like I said before, there has been a worldwide diesel shortage this year. The Economist does a very good job of explaining why:


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')iesel’s second coming
Apr 4th 2008
From Economist.com

Fact is, there’s a global shortage of the stuff. That’s why, shorn of tax breaks, diesel costs so much more than petrol. Over the past year, the average price of diesel in America has risen by 117%—twice as fast as petrol. While both carry the same taxes in America, diesel now costs 60 to 70 cents a gallon more than regular gas.

With spring in the air, factories, office, stores and homes in the chillier northern half of America will have started to turn down their oil-fired heating systems. Meanwhile, farmers and truckers (big users both of diesel fuel) are in the midst of their slackest season of the year. Couple that with an economy that’s lurching towards recession, and you would be excused for thinking the price of diesel—which comes from the same part of the barrel as heating oil—would now be falling.

Actually, if anything, it’s continuing to rise. That’s because of the burgeoning demand from Europe, China and India.

It doesn’t help that the catalytic crackers used by oil refineries in America are optimised to produce as much petrol as possible—typically about 50% of every barrel. Diesel accounts for only 15% of the rest, with the balance used to produce heating oil, jet fuel, heavy fuel, liquid petroleum gas, asphalt and other products.

Refineries in Europe and elsewhere tend to use hydrocrackers that produce 25% petrol and 25% diesel. They would like to produce more diesel than they currently do, but that would mean producing even more petrol than they need. At present, they export their surplus to America.


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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby DantesPeak » Mon 07 Apr 2008, 22:00:08

Diesel hit new records in the wholesale market today as a major European refiner was hit by a fire. It take through the end of May to repair.

About 200,000 barrels per day of refined products will be lost.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he maintenance shutdown at PL 4 at Porvoo will continue through may
ESPOO, FINLAND--(Marketwire - April 7, 2008) -


The fire that took place at Neste Oil's production line 4 at the Porvoo refinery on Friday 4 April will delay the completion of the line's maintenance shutdown through May. The line, which was commissioned in summer 2007 and concentrates on diesel production, had just been prepared for a planned partial maintenance shutdown prior to the fire. This work was due to take place in April. Lost production resulting from the extended shutdown and the repair costs are expected to total approximately 40 million euros.

The fire was the result of a leakage in a heat exchanger and lasted some 50 minutes. The fire damaged cabling and the table-top of the line's distillation column.

Scheduled maintenance work on other units at the Porvoo refinery will also take place during April. Neste Oil's petroleum product deliveries will not be affected by maintenance work.


Market Wire
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby DantesPeak » Tue 08 Apr 2008, 19:13:18

Average US price for diesel is now over $4. Not mentioned in the article below is the fact that South America and Europe are now bidding for diesel supplies in the US today, for export, even as new price records in the US are set daily.



$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')as Prices Slip, but Could Hit $4
By JOHN WILEN – 1 hour ago

High oil prices have also sent diesel prices higher. Diesel's national average price rose 1.3 cents to $4.02 a gallon on Tuesday, AAA said, within 2 cents of last month's record.

"We'll set a new record this week — probably in the $4.05 to $4.10 a gallon neighborhood," said Tom Kloza, publisher and chief oil analyst at the Oil Price Information Service in Wall, N.J.

Diesel fuel is used to transport most of the world's food, industrial and consumer products, and is one of the reason food prices have risen so sharply this year.


AP
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 08 Apr 2008, 19:19:12

Gosh this makes me miss the old days when Globalization was an abstract concept and tariff nationalism was commonplace.
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby DantesPeak » Tue 08 Apr 2008, 19:28:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'G')osh this makes me miss the old days when Globalization was an abstract concept and tariff nationalism was commonplace.


This may come as a surprise for some but the US could actually export its way into a fuel or even food crisis.
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby Mechler » Tue 08 Apr 2008, 19:28:11

Any speculation on the long term trend of diesel vs. unleaded? I'm starting to think that buying a new VW TDI might not be such a great idea.

Can the refiners easily switch production from one fuel to another? I think Pup mentioned once that the answer is "no".

Screw it - I'm just gonna my drive my cars into the ground and then ride my bike. :x
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Re: Record Diesel engine fuels price thread.

Unread postby DantesPeak » Tue 08 Apr 2008, 19:31:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mechler', 'A')ny speculation on the long term trend of diesel vs. unleaded? I'm starting to think that buying a new VW TDI might not be such a great idea.

Can the refiners easily switch production from one fuel to another? I think Pup mentioned once that the answer is "no".

Screw it - I'm just gonna my drive my cars into the ground and then ride my bike. :x


US refiners are highly optimized for gasoline, Europe is much the opposite. While I am no expert on refinery changeovers, it is not easy to switch from diesel to gasoline or visa versa. I suspect some of the extended refinery maintenence in the US this year may be because they underestimated diesel demand, and they are trying to adapt.
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