[FreakOil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'U')nless you personally are prepared to curb your reproduction to zero, and die prematurely yourself, then you are the problem! In order to live we need to consume. There is no such thing as negative consumption at a personal level. You are your enemy. Bunch of hypocrits that want someone else to do the dying to save the planet. Have a nice weekend.

[timbo]

In response to JC_Tyler's comments.

I guess for me, as an uber-doomer it comes down to:

If we don't change and soon the we are all going to die or at least an awful lot of us will.

Unfortunately unless faced with hard and immediate choices most people just go plodding along complacently.

Without a change to the continual growth model we are currently operating under we really are no smarter than yeast.

I agree with another poster "We have met the enemy and they are us". Recognising your mistakes is the first step on the long path to correcting them.

[MrBill]

I just love hypocrits who expect someone else to pay their taxes for them. 25-years in Britain and she does not expect to pay taxes like a UK resident.

Britain's $60,000 Tax Bill Has Middle Class Packing for Dublin
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')rancine Stone, born in Pennsylvania, has called Britain home for 25 years. The researcher on Middle Eastern and Islamic affairs says a new tax on foreign-born residents will drive her out.
(con’t)

Foreigners who have lived in Britain for more than seven years and claim their tax home is elsewhere must declare and pay taxes on their global income beginning April 6. To avoid doing so, they will have to pay a 30,000-pound ($60,000) annual fee.

``It's the self-respecting, honest, not `super-rich' people who are being lumped together with the very wealthy,'' said Stone, 63, who's lived outside Wallingford, England, since 1983. ``We don't deserve to be targeted.''
(con’t)

So-called non-domiciled residents who don't pay the flat fee will be subject to the same tax on income from overseas assets as Britons,

(con’t)

Some long-established U.K. residents, such as Stone, say moving to Ireland may be an easy option.

``We would look at other tax havens where we are not going to be hassled or bankrupted,'' she said.
(con’t)

While Stone agrees with the goal of fairness, she thinks the new rules are too harsh.

``If it were more justly targeted I might say, `Right On!' being a brown-sandal-wearing lefty,'' she said. ``But we are seriously considering our next move.''

[FreakOil]

She should definitely be paying British taxes, but not U.S. taxes if she's a permanent resident of Britain. Perhaps she thinks that because she pays U.S. taxes, she shouldn't have to pay any more?

I have no qualms about paying Hong Kong taxes. I live here and use the infrastructure. But I do not want to pay U.S. taxes. The U.S. government does nothing but embarrass me.

[MrBill]

That is as simple as giving up your US passport. A decision every expat must make at some decision if they have gone local. Some countries do not - yet - tax worldwide income.

The non-dom rule in the UK was kind of strange, and left a big loophole. I believe in the interests of fairness everyone must pay their share. This loophole should have been closed earlier.

Mind you the UK will lose a lot of footlose and fancy free billionaires that have been using London as their homebase. Just because it is fair does not mean that a change in the law will not have unintended consequences for Brown & crew.

Afterall London's emergence as a premier financial center stemmed partially out of capital controls in the USA in the 70s, and was later cemeted by Sarbanes-Oxley. Be careful what you wish for? ; - ))

[timbo]

Interesting change of direction for this thread. But in many ways still on topic as those who do not to believe in their obligations under the social contract implicit in paying your taxes are also unlikely to subscribe to any proposition limiting their consumption and thus are very likely to be classifiable as "The Enemy"

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'A')nd why would anyone want to reproduce with someone who was so careless with his life?

Life is a beautiful thing, negativity is your enemy, not "growth".

Rather than try to accomplish the impossible (STOP ALL GROWTH RIGHT NOW!!!) why not work towards making that growth more sustainable or at the very least less harmful?

I know that growth isn't going to go on forever but that's ok. We don't need it to.

Human population will be on the downward slope by the mid 20th century and human consumption per capita can stabilize at a high quality of life without destroying the planet if population is decreasing.

The Peak Oil Movement (such as it is) is useless if its members believe all hope is lost and that we're all going to die tomorrow.

How exactly are we going to get policies changed to reduce our impact on the planet and promote sustainable development. Forget policy changes, why make personal changes if everything is pointless.

I just can't understand doomer mentality. Why do y'all keep posting? Is life just a bleak death spiral punctuated by the occasional clever post on Peakoil.com.

I really hope that's not what it has come to. But I read the posts of folks like zensui and it makes me wonder.

[Homesteader]

But damn that siren song is tempting ain't it Heineken. . .

[Heineken]

Yes, the pull of the opium is strong, Homesteader.

[Blacksmith]

Growth is built into the system without growth our modern society will not survive.

I also agree with Mr Bill about wanting others to pay our way. Your responsible for your own actions and survival.

[Ibon]

There is a difference between negativity and embracing the inevitable.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'G')rowth is built into the system without growth our modern society will not survive.

I also agree with Mr Bill about wanting others to pay our way. Your responsible for your own actions and survival.

[seldom_seen]

The bottom line is that if we never tapped in to fossil fuels. The human population would have never exploded to 7 billion or whatever it is now, and the biosphere wouldn't be FUBAR'd.

It was simply a feeding frenzy. Like yeast in a wine vat, or algae on a stagnant summer pond. A pattern repeated, over and over and over in nature.

Once the detritus (fossil fuels) are mostly depleted. Our numbers will contract dramatically. Given enough time the biosphere will recover, and there may even be a few of us around to see it.

People will call me a 'doomer' for saying something like this. Yet this is simply how nature works. I don't see anything 'doomerish' about it.

I'm actually quite optimistic about the whole thing. I look forward to the end of industrial civilization. The torturing of animals and atoms. The toxic stew of pollution covering land, sea and sky. The mass production of dead bodies. The leveling of forests and mountaintops to feed the insatiable appetite of the machine. Resource depletion and the extinction of biological diversity. The prison like living conditions of our biggest cities. The diminution of freedom and stifling of the human spirit through overpopulation and totalitarian governance. On and on...

I didn't sign up for any of this. I'm an involuntary participant in this grand failure. I figure the sooner it's wiped from the face of the planet the sooner people, nature can begin to live again.

[MrBill]

seldom_seen wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') didn't sign up for any of this. I'm an involuntary participant in this grand failure. I figure the sooner it's wiped from the face of the planet the sooner people, nature can begin to live again.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'I')t was simply a feeding frenzy. Like yeast in a wine vat, or algae on a stagnant summer pond. A pattern repeated, over and over and over in nature.

I didn't sign up for any of this. I'm an involuntary participant in this grand failure. I figure the sooner it's wiped from the face of the planet the sooner people, nature can begin to live again.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'S')ustainable growth? Try harvesting a forest in a responsible manner and it will last indefinitely if you follow the rule of total allowable cut. That is if the average age of the trees in the forest is 70-years then you can cut exactly 1/70th of the forest each season. No more, no less.

There are certainly fields in western Europe that have been more or less in continuous production for more than 1000-years. I would call that unlimited growth. Not that those fields can always produce more and more, but if cared for properly they can produce indefinitely.

What is not sustainable is our own rate of reproduction or growth. Nor the pace at which we harvest the biosphere without allowing flora, fauna and marine life to replenish itself. Clearly unsustainable. Not the concept, but the tragedy of the commons and our own short-sightedness. Ignorance is our enemy!

[hornofhubris]

I think we are doing the dunce dance sometimes with regard to
economics. Mr. Bill, unlike so many economically oriented experts,
is able to defend the economics systems and results within a
framework of sustainable growth and said so.

So long as there is a pool of humans there will be economic systems
in place. I have personally seen that communism and pure socialism
are horrible failures because when you concentrate decision making
and authority it goes rotten and becomes oppressive every time.
Freer markets and distributed decision making is the better system
and is almost perfect when tempered with good stewardship
by it's participants. (e.g. resource protection including humans.)
This is Mr. Bills case as I read it and I happen to agree.
This is true for you and your children.

The so called enemy is how to keep humans from reproducing
when they experience a bloom in food and this enemy is built
into most of the lifeforms whether they pursue theories or
participate in isms of any kind. Get very mad at us, we literally
screwed ourselves out of a great deal.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', '
')If we dont come up with answers soon