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THE Water Quality Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby steam_cannon » Tue 11 Mar 2008, 22:38:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'E')vaporating estrogen now eh? This is getting dumb
Maybe, maybe not. I'll put it in perspective. You know when you heat
plastic and it smells, that smell probably includes evaporated plastics
compounds that mimic estrogen (as discussed earlier). And eventually
that stuff comes out of the air. Another example might be
salt water spray, which you can smell in the air in the ocean. And of
course some molecules may not have a smell or be readily identifiable.

However, I do agree with you that if the sources are not contaminated
by populations or industrial pollution raining down, there could be an
oddness about it...

It would make a great conspiracy theory
* It wouldn't take a lot of people.
* It would be hard to differentiate from background pollution.
* You could probably use it to slow population growth.
* And maybe if Bush makes the whole country gay he can finally "come out"! :lol:
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby auscanman » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 00:03:15

The amount of estrogen and other pharmaceuticals evaporating would be negligible, even if there was an extremely high level of these substances in the water at issue. Yes, some minute amount might get trapped amongst a cluster of evaporating water molecules, but certainly not much. Definitely not enough to produce a detectable level of these substances in any precipitation.

The dirt that 'clean' rainwater leaves behind consists of particulates it picks up in the air on the way down (or acid residues if you're talking about acid rain).
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby auscanman » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 00:15:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'E')vaporating estrogen now eh? This is getting dumb
Maybe, maybe not. I'll put it in perspective. You know when you heat
plastic and it smells, that smell probably includes evaporated plastics
compounds that mimic estrogen (as discussed earlier). And eventually
that stuff comes out of the air. Another example might be
salt water spray, which you can smell in the air in the ocean. And of
course some molecules may not have a smell or be readily identifiable.

However, I do agree with you that if the sources are not contaminated
by populations or industrial pollution raining down, there could be an
oddness about it...

It would make a great conspiracy theory
* It wouldn't take a lot of people.
* It would be hard to differentiate from background pollution.
* You could probably use it to slow population growth.
* And maybe if Bush makes the whole country gay he can finally "come out"! :lol:
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NaCl (sea salt) is a much smaller molecule and is more soluble than any active pharmaceutical ingredient, so it's easier for it to be trapped amongst evaporating water molecules. Hence the need for a fractional distillation to get pure water from distillation of sea water.

As for burning plastic... as the plastic burns chemical reactions are occuring, with some oxidation of the hydrocarbons occuring, and some of the hydrocarbon chains getting broken down to smaller hydrocarbons. Some of the resulting hydrocarbons and oxidized molecules will be so small that they'll be gases. So what you're inhaling is an (unhealthy) cocktail of chemicals. This is a chemical change, as opposed to the physical change that occurs with evaporation.
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby steam_cannon » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 00:41:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('auscanman', 'N')aCl (sea salt) is a much smaller molecule and is more soluble than
any active pharmaceutical ingredient, so it's easier for it to be
trapped amongst evaporating water molecules. Hence the need for
a fractional distillation to get pure water from distillation of sea water.
I disagree with a lot of what you just said. I gave an example of
mechanical turbulence (ocean salt spray) lifting salt into the air.
And simple solar stills are highly effective at removing salt.

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http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic849-0-asc-75.html
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic849-0-asc-90.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('auscanman', 'A')s for burning plastic...
I didn't say anything about burning plastic. I was specifically mentioning
"heating plastic" because heating plastics speeds the release of chemicals
known to mimic estrogen. These may be volatile and cause an odor.
Plastic is heated when it's burned but that is not what I was talking about.

Heating Plastic Bottles Releases Potentially Harmful Chemical
http://tinyurl.com/2fzccw

http://solarcooking.org/images/scr/mar03/photom.JPG
http://photos10.flickr.com/13744353_5a1644dd91.jpg
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby auscanman » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 01:18:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('auscanman', 'N')aCl (sea salt) is a much smaller molecule and is more soluble than
any active pharmaceutical ingredient, so it's easier for it to be
trapped amongst evaporating water molecules. Hence the need for
a fractional distillation to get pure water from distillation of sea water.
I disagree with a lot of what you just said. I gave an example of
mechanical turbulence (ocean salt spray) lifting salt into the air.
And simple solar stills are highly effective at removing salt.

Image
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic849-0-asc-75.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('auscanman', 'A')s for burning plastic...
I didn't say anything about burning plastic. I was specifically mentioning
"heating plastic" because heating plastics speeds the release of chemicals
known to mimic estrogen. These may be volatile and cause an odor.
Plastic is heated when it's burned but that is not what I was talking about.

Heating Plastic Bottles Releases Potentially Harmful Chemical
http://tinyurl.com/2fzccw


The ocean spray smell is actually salt trapped in water droplets. Those droplets are the result of evaporation, which I agree is aided by the wind. They aren't purely the result of mechanical turbulence though.

The result when you heat or burn plastic will be a mixture of: combustion, oxidation and monomerization. When you heat plastic you get more oxidation and monomerization than combustion, but even with burning there is still some monomerization and oxidation, so my point stands regardless of whether we're talking about burning or heating plastic.

If the monomer that makes up the plastic is small enough and lacking in polarity, then heating the plastic will result in some of that monomer being vaporized, so you're correct on that point.

It's not surprising that solar stills are effective at removing salt given that you're evaporating the water in that case versus boiling the water in a distillation. A lot more impurities get dragged with the water when it's boiled than when it's evaporated. I didn't mean that fractional distillation was the only way to get pure water, just that a simple distillation (with boiling) isn't good if you want pure water as it results in the water being somewhat salty.

I wonder if the reason these hormones and pharmaceuticals are being found in relatively remote areas is due to the use of these substances in livestock. Most livestock are pumped full of hormones and antibiotics, and their waste is usually discarded into storage ponds on or near the farm. These substances would then seep into the groundwater, and eventually make their way into reservoirs. That seems a much more plausible explanation than evaporation of large antibiotic molecules with very high boiling points.
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby manu » Wed 19 Mar 2008, 08:39:10

No matter how they got in the water, they are there. So I say, "ban all pharmacutical drugs unless you can prove that they break down safely." I don't want any amout of them in the water I drink. Oh, I forgot, the big pharma companies are owned by the politicians and corporate scum who really don't give a damn about people's health. They will keep the lemmings running for the cliff. Turn lemmings before it's too late!
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Wed 19 Mar 2008, 12:11:14

Well...pharmaceuticals are far from being the only chemicals in your water. There are thousands of companies producing innumerable tons of chemicals everyday, many of which are environmentally persistent and biologically active. If you really want "clean" food or water, you're going to have to move to a different planet. This one is engaged in a grand experiment to find out what happens to lifeforms when they are exposed to this chemical soup. Eventually it's probably going to turn out badly.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby Ferretlover » Wed 19 Mar 2008, 12:14:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', ' ')This one is engaged in a grand experiment to find out what happens to lifeforms when they are exposed to this chemical soup. Eventually it's probably going to turn out badly.


I agree. Look what is happening to the oceans.
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby manu » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 02:12:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'W')ell...pharmaceuticals are far from being the only chemicals in your water. There are thousands of companies producing innumerable tons of chemicals everyday, many of which are environmentally persistent and biologically active. If you really want "clean" food or water, you're going to have to move to a different planet. This one is engaged in a grand experiment to find out what happens to lifeforms when they are exposed to this chemical soup. Eventually it's probably going to turn out badly.


Yes, real bad.
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby BigTex » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 02:52:16

Does anyone know any more about the fish with sexual identity issues as a result of being exposed to this laced water?

I remember that story from a few years ago, but the way I remember it the fish were swimming in Prozac contaminated water and they weren't mating because they were happy enough to just swim around without trying to get any.

Something tells me the pharma industry's solution to that problem would be to introduce trace amounts of Viagra into the Prozac contaminated water.
:)
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby manu » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 08:37:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'D')oes anyone know any more about the fish with sexual identity issues as a result of being exposed to this laced water?

I remember that story from a few years ago, but the way I remember it the fish were swimming in Prozac contaminated water and they weren't mating because they were happy enough to just swim around without trying to get any.

Something tells me the pharma industry's solution to that problem would be to introduce trace amounts of Viagra into the Prozac contaminated water.


I read an article from Europe around eight or so years ago about fish near a sewage outlet changing sexes. It seems a cocktail of chemicals is worse than each one seperatly. Anyway, it's all coming to an end soon as the Earth is going to do a major cleansing and then it's back to the horse and ox for another 10,000 years or so.
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby BigTex » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 10:22:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('manu', 'I') read an article from Europe around eight or so years ago about fish near a sewage outlet changing sexes. It seems a cocktail of chemicals is worse than each one seperatly. Anyway, it's all coming to an end soon as the Earth is going to do a major cleansing and then it's back to the horse and ox for another 10,000 years or so.


IN A LOW-TECH ENVIRONMENT WE WILL JUST LEVERAGE OUR KNOWLEDGE

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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby frankthetank » Sat 22 Mar 2008, 01:04:48

So if i'm on an SSRI (my doc wants to drug me up) should i pee

A)toilet (goes into Mississippi river most likely)
B)in my yard somewhere? (i'm on a well...will this stuff make it down 60ft?)
C)save it in plastic jugs



Aren't a lot of these drugs actually plant based to some extent? Just purified?

Remember that even natural "organic" things can cause BAD things...
Mix up some Rotenone in a cocktail and you might end up with Parkinson's disease.
lawns should be outlawed.
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby BigTex » Sat 22 Mar 2008, 02:40:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'S')o if i'm on an SSRI (my doc wants to drug me up) should i pee

A)toilet (goes into Mississippi river most likely)
B)in my yard somewhere? (i'm on a well...will this stuff make it down 60ft?)
C)save it in plastic jugs



Aren't a lot of these drugs actually plant based to some extent? Just purified?

Remember that even natural "organic" things can cause BAD things...
Mix up some Rotenone in a cocktail and you might end up with Parkinson's disease.


Maybe you should get one of those barrels that they keep the nuclear waste in and dump your plastic pee jugs in there. When the barrel is full you can see about storing it in one of those future-proof Nevada caves.
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby steam_cannon » Sat 22 Mar 2008, 11:58:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'C'))save it in plastic jugs
:lol:

However seriously, similar things have been done before...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Some Meth Addicts Turn to Urine to Get High

Saturday, February 03, 2007

Some hard-core methamphetamine addicts will do anything to get
high, including collecting and drinking the urine of other users.

Police in New Mexico recently discovered meth users running "urine
extraction" labs, reported Minnesota's news station WCCO.

The first indication of the new trend came when deputies opened
up a smelly rented storage locker where they found 50 1-gallon
jugs of urine. Police told the owners to throw away the contents,
which made them physically ill.

Click Here to Read WCCO's Full Story

A week later, Narcotics Sgt. Becky Howell received the report on the incident.

"I said, 'Oh my gosh, this is a meth lab. This is a urine extraction lab,'" Howell told WCCO.

It's the newest way to access meth. Some users drink the meth-tainted urine
to get high while others use the cooking process to filter the drug back out.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250132,00.html
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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby BigTex » Sat 22 Mar 2008, 13:18:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', 'H')owever seriously, similar things have been done before...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Some Meth Addicts Turn to Urine to Get High

Saturday, February 03, 2007

Some hard-core methamphetamine addicts will do anything to get
high, including collecting and drinking the urine of other users.

Police in New Mexico recently discovered meth users running "urine
extraction" labs, reported Minnesota's news station WCCO.

The first indication of the new trend came when deputies opened
up a smelly rented storage locker where they found 50 1-gallon
jugs of urine. Police told the owners to throw away the contents,
which made them physically ill.

Click Here to Read WCCO's Full Story

A week later, Narcotics Sgt. Becky Howell received the report on the incident.

"I said, 'Oh my gosh, this is a meth lab. This is a urine extraction lab,'" Howell told WCCO.

It's the newest way to access meth. Some users drink the meth-tainted urine
to get high while others use the cooking process to filter the drug back out.


Think about how much trouble a pack of meth addicts could get into if they had some of those "Dune" suits.

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Re: Health: Pharmaceuticals lurking in U.S. drinking water

Unread postby steam_cannon » Sat 22 Mar 2008, 20:40:28

It brings up a lot of questions, like if a methlab dumps a bad batch,
it could end up in peoples wells. Urine from meth users probably already
ends up in drinking water.

Another thought, imagine when the stuff gets out to the ocean.

Stingrays on meth! Crikey!
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US drinking water is toxic, public too brain damaged to care

Unread postby dukey » Wed 30 Sep 2009, 20:12:25

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Re: US drinking water is toxic, public too brain damaged to care

Unread postby Ferretlover » Thu 01 Oct 2009, 00:30:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ity of Corpus Christi, TX Serves: 270,000 people:
An Environmental Working Group analysis of tap water tests from 1998 through 2002 shows that customers of City of Corpus Christi drank water containing up to 24 pollutants, including one unregulated contaminant. City of Corpus Christi is one of 65,000 water suppliers across the country wrestling with treating water polluted by sprawl, sewage, factory farms, and industry.
Pollution Summary:
24 Total Contaminants Detected (1998 - 2002):
Aluminum, Arsenic (total), Barium (total), Chromium (total), Copper, Manganese, Nitrate, Selenium (total), Sulfate, Metolachlor, Atrazine, Monochloroacetic acid, Dichloroacetic acid, Trichloroacetic acid, Monobromoacetic acid, Dibromoacetic acid, Total haloacetic acids, Chloroform, Bromoform, Bromodichloromethane, Dibromochloromethane, Total trihalomethanes (TTHMs), Dichloromethane (methylene chloride), Gross beta particle activity (pCi/L)

4 Agricultural Pollutants:
(pesticides, fertilizer, factory farms)
Nitrate, Sulfate, Metolachlor, Atrazine

3 Sprawl and Urban Pollutants:
(road runoff, lawn pesticides, human waste)
Arsenic (total), Copper, Nitrate

10 Industrial Pollutants:
Aluminum, Arsenic (total), Barium (total), Chromium (total), Manganese, Nitrate, Selenium (total), Sulfate, Dichloromethane (methylene chloride), Gross beta particle activity (pCi/L)

11 Water Treatment and Distribution Byproducts (pipes and fixtures, treatment chemicals and byproducts):
Monochloroacetic acid, Dichloroacetic acid, Trichloroacetic acid, Monobromoacetic acid, Dibromoacetic acid, Total haloacetic acids, Chloroform, Bromoform, Bromodichloromethane, Dibromochloromethane, Total trihalomethanes (TTHMs)

9 Naturally Occurring (naturally present but increased for lands denuded by sprawl, agriculture, or industrial development) :
Aluminum, Arsenic (total), Chromium (total), Copper, Manganese, Nitrate, Selenium (total), Sulfate, Gross beta particle activity (pCi/L)

1 Unregulated Contaminants EPA has not established a maximum legal limit in tapwater for these contaminants:
Metolachlor
Checked on what’s in YOUR water?
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Re: US drinking water is toxic, public too brain damaged to care

Unread postby dinopello » Thu 01 Oct 2009, 07:56:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', ' ') Checked on what’s in YOUR water?


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')rlington County, VA, Serves 184,000 people

5 Total Contaminants Detected (2003 - 2003)
Total haloacetic acids, Chloroform, Bromodichloromethane, Dibromochloromethane, Total trihalomethanes (TTHMs)

0 Agricultural Pollutants
(pesticides, fertilizer, factory farms)

0 Sprawl and Urban Pollutants
(road runoff, lawn pesticides, human waste)

0 Industrial Pollutants

5 Water Treatment and Distribution Byproducts
(pipes and fixtures, treatment chemicals and byproducts)
Total haloacetic acids, Chloroform, Bromodichloromethane, Dibromochloromethane, Total trihalomethanes (TTHMs)

0 Naturally Occurring
(naturally present but increased for lands denuded by sprawl, agriculture, or industrial development)
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