[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]The Pallet Root Cellar




That's it. You are now the proud owner of your own "Root cellar" full of
food. If you are careful in packing the items, you should have many
months of food down there. This item is good for most natural
disasters (except, obviously, floods) and as can be readily
appreciated. Even if the house is flat, your food is still there waiting to
be used. I am sure many of you have already envisioned many "Root
cellars" all over the yard, some with food, some water, or clothes or?

http://theepicenter.com/tow1102.html

[BigTex]

steam_cannon, thanks for linking to this excellent thread.

On the subject of oxygen in the tube, this thought occurred to me for a good ventilation method.

You may have seen these roof-mounted solar-powered attic ventilation fans.



I am thinking you could put one of these at the end of a ventilation exhaust line that starts at one end of the tube and have a ventilation intake line at the other end of the shelter. You could close both lines if necessary, and have an alternate small fresh air line connected to the exhaust line so that the exhaust fan wouldn't be sucking on the interior air if the shelter intake line were closed.

This would be a pretty easy passive way of getting good ventilation at all times (when there is sun anyway). It would make sense to keep a small fan in the shelter as well in the event that the the solar fan stopped working. The solar fan would make a target, unless perhaps it was placed on the roof of the dwelling or a nearby outbuilding and the exhaust line was run inside the wall of the structure.

I am also thinking that this kind of ventilation might actually be most useful when you are NOT using the shelter, to prevent musty smells, accumulations of moisture, and that sort of thing (unless the ventilation method would raise the temperature of the air in the shelter above the desired level for the root cellar.

You know what, come to think of it, I wonder if you couldn't rig this ventilation setup to also provide a kind of low volume passive air exchanger between the interior of the above-ground dwelling and the interior of the shelter to help the HVAC system of the dwelling not work quite so hard during the day.

That might be a nice setup, especially since the hard work of digging the hole has already been done.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'Y')ou may have seen these roof-mounted solar-powered attic ventilation fans.

[gg3]

Re. air filtration: Most furnace filters are not sufficient because they allow too much fine particulate matter to pass. If you can get furnace filters that are HEPA rated, those will be OK.

Putting the air intakes in the dwelling is an excellent idea from a security standpoint. Minimizes the risk that attackers would be able to find them and release poisonous gas into them. And you could have a tunnel back into the dwelling to enable people to take shifts on watch duty.

Come to think of it, a more diversified air intake system is probably a good idea. If the house catches fire, you want a safe external air intake (hide it in a tree stump or among a cluster of boulders?). Different preps for different threats.

[roccman]

Tube II in the ground as of last week...



Extensions...





5' shorter than Tube I, but buried deeper...

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', 'T')ube II in the ground as of last week...

[BigTex]

So Rocc, are you eating again now?

How was the fast?

***

On the subject of underground chambers, for anyone interested the tunnels of the Cu Chi region of Vietnan used during the war are fascinating to read about. The way they hid the entrances, the way they got rid of the dirt, it's interesting how they put together the whole network.

I read a book about them in high school and still remember a lot of the images of Vietnamese women carrying coffee cans of dirt long distances from the dig sites to prevent any clues to give away the digging.

I took a look at the site that buries the buses for shelters (VERY nice, BTW), and that got me to thinking about using an old cargo van in the same manner. You could pick one of those up pretty cheap and use it as a shell. Due to the shape I think you would have to use some stout internal support, but I would think that if you placed some vertical cedar 4x4s inside that ought to give you plenty of support (I don't know if additional horizontal support would be needed).

Is there a simple way to dehumidify the air and collect the moisture in a way that it can be used?

Rocc, very nice work. I assume you looked at the fiberglass shelters. What kept you away from those? Cost? Something else?

[roccman]

Really folks... Read these two pages on AIG: TF Now you understand why I said your FICO means squat...and you should buy food.

For all you morally superior fvcks who think a 750 is going to do you any good, Write it on the back of a match book - grab your last loaf of bread and smugly enjoy your own personal fade to black.

[miskatonic]

Could you sum it up for us? I think I understand what those two pages are getting at but a summary would be better.

[Zardoz]

Why are you so anxious and eager to see a total, ultra-catastrophic, overnight collapse of all systems? You've been wishing and hoping for it since you first started posting here.

[startswithearthquakes]

I guess it means super ultra mega duper DO oOooOOOOOOO0000000000MMMMM!!!!!

[Tyler_JC]

Here's your problem: $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')redit-default swaps on AIG, the biggest U.S. insurer, soared on concern that it may be the next big financial firm to run short of capital after $587 billion in contracts guaranteeing home loans, corporate bonds and other investments plunged in value. Standard & Poor's and Moody's Investors Service have said AIG's credit ratings may be cut if its mortgage assets fall further or if potential capital needs aren't addressed. AIG may have to post more than $13 billion of collateral following a downgrade, it has said in regulatory filings.

Turnaround Plan: Credit-default swap sellers demanded 12.5 percentage points upfront and 5 percentage points a year to protect AIG bonds from default for five years, according to broker Phoenix Partners Group. That means it would cost $1.25 million initially and $500,000 a year to protect $10 million in AIG bonds for five years. Yesterday, it cost $688,000 a year with no upfront payment, according to CMA Datavision.

AIG's market value shrank by 46 percent this week on concern its credit ratings will be cut. Chief Executive Officer Robert Willumstad has promised to deliver a turnaround plan on Sept. 25 after the firm posted three straight quarterly losses totaling $18.5 billion. The plan may be announced sooner, a person familiar with the company said. "As distressed as they are, raising new capital could be extremely hard,'' said Tim Backshall, chief strategist at Credit Derivatives Research LLC in Walnut Creek, California, today in an e-mail.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'W')hy are you so anxious and eager to see a total, ultra-catastrophic, overnight collapse of all systems? You've been wishing and hoping for it since you first started posting here.

[miskatonic]

Yeah that was what I got out of it. A prudent banker thing to do would to do would be not to lend at all. If I knew you were about to be unemployed and you needed a loan there is no way I would lend you $1000 in cash.

I don't think anybody is wishing for an ultra catastrophic melt down. It isn't any anybody's best interest no matter how much they really want to be right about the whole thing.

The bad thing is that he is right about the whole thing. This isn't a melt down anymore. The powers to be are managing the fall out. The last few weeks have been like watching the Twin Towers go down in slow motion.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'W')hy are you so anxious and eager to see a total, ultra-catastrophic, overnight collapse of all systems? You've been wishing and hoping for it since you first started posting here.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')tandard & Poor's and Moody's Investors Service have said AIG's credit ratings may be cut

[like_the_dinosaurs]

It's funny you mentioned bunkers, it's the next thing on my list of preps.

The Australian markets are down 2% here. Our major banks aren't too entrenched with lehman but AIG is another story.

I think peak oil.com should start writing fortune cookies or perhaps we could travel around in a circus and tell fortunes for $5.

[phaster]

It's BUNKER time ?? it really isn't IMHO, ask your self do you still have your health, your friends and family, if so then all is not lost.

money can be made, money can be lost and money can made back again! Unlike oil which once its lost that it, unless of course the abiotic theory of oil really is responsibe for "reserve replacement"

[jlw61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'W')hy are you so anxious and eager to see a total, ultra-catastrophic, overnight collapse of all systems? You've been wishing and hoping for it since you first started posting here.

[pedalling_faster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('miskatonic', 'C')ould you sum it up for us? I think I understand what those two pages are getting at but a summary would be better.