Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Study: Fuel makes many airplanes [economically] obsolete

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Study: Fuel makes many airplanes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 12:26:38

In from the Obvious Department (emphasis mine below):
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')AP Study: Fuel Makes Many Planes Obsolete
Thurs 20 Mar 10:41 am ET, By Adam Schreck, AP Business Writer
High Fuel Prices Makes Many Smaller Planes "Economically Obsolete," According to New Study:
NEW YORK (AP) -- Surging fuel prices have rendered many of the world's airliners too expensive to operate, making them "economically obsolete," according to a study Thursday by an aviation consulting firm. Most at risk are smaller regional jets, especially those with fewer than 50 seats, that are used by carriers to connect smaller airports to larger hubs, according to the forecast by The Boyd Group in Evergreen, Colo.

More than half of the existing regional jets in service in the U.S. -- over 900 aircraft -- will be retired over the next five years, the report said. "Contrary to other forecasts that predict 'thousands' of new (regional jets), the hard fact is that there are no such next-generation airliners on the drawing board. The (regional jet) era is over," the firm said in a statement. ...

Well, that's almost right. "Regional" jet is a distinction I don't make myself, but whatever - close enough. Yahoo Business
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

George Carlin
User avatar
emersonbiggins
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5150
Joined: Sun 10 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Dallas

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby efarmer » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 12:43:09

Airlines have been playing hooky from the grim reaper all of
my adult life it seems EB. This may be a driver for passenger
rail comeback. Climbing into a petroleum powered aluminum
tube and hurtling to Las Vegas to be juiced, seduced, and
then run through the money ringer to be sent home dry is
probably ready to jump into the dumpster as well.

Invest in a stuffed chicken, this way you will have a train
seat empty on either side of you so you can spread out
and be comfy.
User avatar
efarmer
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2003
Joined: Fri 17 Mar 2006, 04:00:00

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 13:08:56

I'm looking forward to it!

The next regional "jet":

Image
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

George Carlin
User avatar
emersonbiggins
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5150
Joined: Sun 10 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Dallas

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby raober » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 13:36:30

Man, now I know that I'm getting too deep into all this PO stuff. That train picture is sexier than any pictures of women I've seen lately...
User avatar
raober
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat 18 Aug 2007, 03:00:00

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby steam_cannon » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 17:39:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('raober', 'M')an, now I know that I'm getting too deep into all this PO stuff. That
train picture is sexier than any pictures of women I've seen lately...
Those sure are some fine curves! And if you like that, check out the
"hooters" on this one! :lol:

Image
http://blog.wired.com/tableofmalcontent ... _jete.html
User avatar
steam_cannon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2859
Joined: Thu 28 Dec 2006, 04:00:00
Location: MA

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 18:00:11

Image
vision-master
 

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby Starvid » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 18:13:26

Image
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
User avatar
Starvid
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sun 20 Feb 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby cube » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 18:34:27

Ever heard the joke:

Becoming a millionaire is really easy. What you need to do is start off as a billionaire and then open up your own airline business. :roll:
cube
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3909
Joined: Sat 12 Mar 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby auscanman » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 19:41:19

How is it that these aircraft are still in use if they're economically obsolete? I've heard there's no tax added to fuel used for aviation, so is that the reason? Or are there government subsidies?

There clearly seems to be something wrong and illogical with the price of gas and oil increasing dramatically over the last 4 years, while the cost of flights has pretty much remained unchanged.
User avatar
auscanman
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed 28 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Yellowknife, Northwest Territories, Canada

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby cube » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 19:52:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'I')'m looking forward to it!

The next regional "jet":

Image
NOT going to happen! We're about to enter the worst financial fiasco since 1929.....and that's not even including PO yet.

and you can forget about soon to be president Hillary Clinton executing some type of "FDR" public works depression era program to save our ass. FDR didn't have to borrow money from the Chinese and rely on imported oil from tin pot dictators just to stay afloat. The circumstances are totally different now.

This will be the next "regional jet":
Image
notice the phrase "Rapid Transit" in the lower left hand corner :lol:
cube
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3909
Joined: Sat 12 Mar 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 19:56:05

Cube, quit exposing me to reality! :evil: :)
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

George Carlin
User avatar
emersonbiggins
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5150
Joined: Sun 10 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Dallas

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 20:40:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'I')n from the Obvious Department (emphasis mine below):

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')AP
Report: Fuel Makes Many Planes Obsolete
Thursday March 20, 10:41 am ET
By Adam Schreck, AP Business Writer
High Fuel Prices Makes Many Smaller Planes "Economically Obsolete," According to New Study

NEW YORK (AP) -- Surging fuel prices have rendered many of the world's airliners too expensive to operate, making them "economically obsolete," according to a study Thursday by an aviation consulting firm.

Most at risk are smaller regional jets, especially those with fewer than 50 seats, that are used by carriers to connect smaller airports to larger hubs, according to the forecast by The Boyd Group in Evergreen, Colo.

More than half of the existing regional jets in service in the U.S. -- over 900 aircraft -- will be retired over the next five years, the report said.

"Contrary to other forecasts that predict 'thousands' of new (regional jets), the hard fact is that there are no such next-generation airliners on the drawing board. The (regional jet) era is over," the firm said in a statement.
...


Well, that's almost right. "Regional" jet is a distinction I don't make myself, but whatever - close enough.



Yahoo Business


Its that darn economies of scale thing again, if you use a 'commuter' jet you burn significantly more fuel per passenger mile than you do with a large wide body jet. The last time I flew back in 2006 we took a commuter plane from Chicago, IL to Richmond, VA. The dang things was packed to the gills and had no empty seats, but that was still only 54 passengers, unless I miscounted rows. For that flight they had a crew of three, Pilot, Co-pilot and Steward. If the plane had held twice as many people the crew size could have been the same and economies of scale would reduce the fuel use per passenger simply because of efficient packaging.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17094
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA
Top

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby NTBKtrader » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 21:51:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'I')n from the Obvious Department


Good stuff, i'm going to borrow that line if you don't mind
User avatar
NTBKtrader
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue 19 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 22:24:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NTBKtrader', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'I')n from the Obvious Department


Good stuff, i'm going to borrow that line if you don't mind


Heh, go for it. I probably wasn't the first to say it, though. :-D
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

George Carlin
User avatar
emersonbiggins
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5150
Joined: Sun 10 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Dallas
Top

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby TheDude » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 22:55:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('raober', 'M')an, now I know that I'm getting too deep into all this PO stuff. That train picture is sexier than any pictures of women I've seen lately...


Watch this video to see a couple of pundits argue vehemently about who has the most profound sexual disfunction. One is obsessed with hard, long, slim rockets.

Here's one solution to flight economy that, as the closing comment from the excerpt explains, was abandoned - for now, natch!

Will you stand for less room on flights?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he airlines have come up with a new answer to an old question: How many passengers can be squeezed into economy class?

A lot more, it turns out, especially if an idea still in the early stage should catch on: standing-room-only "seats."

Airbus has been quietly pitching the standing-room-only option to Asian carriers, though none has agreed to it yet. Passengers in the standing section would be propped against a padded backboard, held in place with a harness, according to experts who have seen a proposal.

(Correction: During preparation of the article, The New York Times' questions to Airbus were imprecise. The company now says that although it researched that idea in 2003, it has since abandoned it.)
Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
And let me tell you something: I dig your work.
User avatar
TheDude
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 4896
Joined: Thu 06 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Top

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby cube » Thu 20 Mar 2008, 23:50:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', '[')url=http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/267888_seats25.html]Will you stand for less room on flights?[/url]
The article states the idea has been grounded for now *no pun intended* :P

However as oil rises I think the idea will be revisited. You can thank $100 oil for these cost cutting measures now in place:
1) no pillows
2) no peanuts
3) electronic tickets (saves $ on paper)
I just can't wait to see the cost-cutting ideas they'll come up with once oil hits $300

Looking at the current fiasco in the banking industry, society has shown a willingness to use tax money to bail out big business. Because of this, I think we'll still have an airline industry post PO...up until society completely collapses.

my 2 air miles
////
Ironically speaking you'll notice that high fuel costs are making the airplanes bigger NOT smaller. Large airplanes are more fuel efficient per passenger. It's more energy efficient to fly 1 large airplane between point A and B rather then 2 smaller airplanes. This is less convenient for consumers because there's less choice as to when to fly. However consumers have already voted with their wallet: price NOT convenience is the primary variable.
cube
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3909
Joined: Sat 12 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby steam_cannon » Fri 21 Mar 2008, 00:13:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'I') just can't wait to see the cost-cutting ideas they'll come up with once
oil hits $300
Only first class gets a toilet... :lol:

Image
User avatar
steam_cannon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2859
Joined: Thu 28 Dec 2006, 04:00:00
Location: MA
Top

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby MrBill » Fri 21 Mar 2008, 05:54:52

I am certainly looking forward to fly business class again without putting up with crowded airports, connecting flights, hoards of tourists and those flying on cheap tickets. Without daily flights leaving every hour on the hour I might even be able to stay at my destination for few days, get to know my customers better and see where it is that I am visiting. Heaven! ; - )
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby TheDude » Fri 21 Mar 2008, 20:36:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'I') just can't wait to see the cost-cutting ideas they'll come up with once
oil hits $300
Only first class gets a toilet... :lol:


Yeah. Probably charge $5 for a square of bung wipe, too. Course you can always rip up your copy of Conde Nast Traveler.

Thought the peanut ban was due to hypo-allergic passengers? Or they figured terrorists could use them with improvised slingshots...
Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
And let me tell you something: I dig your work.
User avatar
TheDude
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 4896
Joined: Thu 06 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Top

Re: Report: Fuel makes many planes [economically] obsolete

Unread postby alokin » Thu 17 Apr 2008, 08:01:36

In Europe we have trains, but don't expect them to be comfy. They're expensive (at least in Germany) late and you may stand for two hours. But this is not because trains are bad it's because of the privatisation.
Anyway I am very happy that this short distance flights have an end
User avatar
alokin
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1255
Joined: Fri 24 Aug 2007, 03:00:00

Next

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron