[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FourOfSwords', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'A')nd even though great armies were meeting on the field of battle, the fate of the world did not rest in the outcome. It rested in the bravery of two of the smallest, least warlike creatures. Bravery and their ability to resist corruption.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'I') wish I could attend your church, cur.

[dorlomin]

Tolkien was at the battle of the Somme. Two of his three closest friends died during WWI. He was a deeply commited catholic christian all of these influences are strong in his tales.

For example the less active and violent the charicter the more likely they were to succeed, hence Boromir the big muscular macho man succumbed to the ring easily when farrimer who balanced scolarship and self effacing discipline with his martial prowess did not, or how inactive Frodo was as a charicter and he went the furthest compaired to the other hobbits who were more active and violent and did not. They did great deads but not the ultimate deed.

Gollums end is also part of the chritianity of the book, "evil oft mars evil" Gollums petty evil and desire for the ring undoes the great evil of middle earth where even Frodo could not. Like the Nazis being there own worst enemy in the end.

The linguistics behind the book are increadible, down to hobbits avoiding words of french and latin origin as much as possible vs arragon and gandalf who use them regularly. Hence too British people the language of the hobbits sounds much more naturally rustic that that off the gentry hobbits and the Westorn men.

His anti technology was very consiouse reaction to the changes in Birmingham by the indurstrial revolution. He carefully crafted the fluid organic language of those who were close to nature with the cliped angular language of those who were distant from it.

I dislike the implicit racism in Tolkien but undertand why it is there, it is a reflection of the constant extistential threat that the east (from the persians vs the greeks through to the Turks vs the Venitians) had posed to Europe and the west throughout history. Historic Europe and its languages were his study.

[mmasters]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'A')nother figure who has a strong nostalgic bent is Rod Serling.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', ' ')it is a reflection of the constant extistential threat that the east (from the persians vs the greeks through to the Turks vs the Venitians) had posed to Europe and the west throughout history. .

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', ' ')it is a reflection of the constant extistential threat that the east (from the persians vs the greeks through to the Turks vs the Venitians) had posed to Europe and the west throughout history. .

[Ludi]

I believe you'll find Calormen lies to the South (or Southeast).

[wisconsin_cur]

I believe that Lewis was refering to Aslan's country being the direction of the rising sun... the direction of hope and providence of God.

Concerning the people of the east and their historical martial... competition with Europe we can see Lewis' view in the portrayal given in The Horse and His Boy.

Both Tolkien and Lewis are rolling in their grave (rightly or wrongly... I'm not interested in getting into a debate on the issue) at the Islamic influence in Europe today. I do think they would be sounding the alarm... again, rightly or wrongly.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') believe you'll find Calormen lies to the South (or Southeast).

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'I') believe that Lewis was refering to Aslan's country being the direction of the rising sun... the direction of hope and providence of God.

[PeakOiler]

Tolkien's works are classic. I had read all his books before I took an elective English literature course while in college on Tolkien. Tolkien borrowed many ideas from Beowolf and Arthurian legend.

[Ludi]

And took many names from the Eddas.

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PeakOiler', 'T')olkien's works are classic. I had read all his books before I took an elective English literature course while in college on Tolkien. Tolkien borrowed many ideas from Beowolf and Arthurian legend.

[steam_cannon]

I like how the mines or Moria were all mined out and Mythreal was a
rare metal... He did a good job sneaking in resource depletion in there.
One could almost argue the Balrog was symbolic of pollution from
closed mines, but that might be stretching it.

The comment below is just wrong, click at your own risk...
[spoil][align=left]$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'A')nother figure who has a strong nostalgic bent is Rod Serling.

[gampy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', ' ')But Tolkein obviously got the picture right. "Industry" is destruction. The story was created in the context of the coming WWII.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gampy', '
')Quite seriously, these tales will last a millenium. The Chaucer of the last 300 years.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gampy', '
')BZZZZZZZZT You are incorrect, sir.

Tolkien repeatedly denied any kind of allegory alluding to WW2.
Sorry to rain on your parade there fella. I am not sure why this fallacy still exists after all the times he tried to dispel it, perhaps people see what they like to see. Not to say that seeing allegory where there isn't is a bad thing. Too each is own, and if it improves your appreciation, all good. Just wanted to help clarify this for you and others.

In fact Tolkien took a rather dim view of allegory, and has published essays talking about this.

Truth be told, I agree. Allegory is for English teachers and poncy literati types. The story is too good to allow yourself to be bogged down with questions about Saruman, and Himmler.

Quite seriously, these tales will last a millenium. The Chaucer of the last 300 years.

[gampy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gampy', '
')BZZZZZZZZT You are incorrect, sir.

Tolkien repeatedly denied any kind of allegory alluding to WW2.
Sorry to rain on your parade there fella. I am not sure why this fallacy still exists after all the times he tried to dispel it, perhaps people see what they like to see. Not to say that seeing allegory where there isn't is a bad thing. Too each is own, and if it improves your appreciation, all good. Just wanted to help clarify this for you and others.

In fact Tolkien took a rather dim view of allegory, and has published essays talking about this.

Truth be told, I agree. Allegory is for English teachers and poncy literati types. The story is too good to allow yourself to be bogged down with questions about Saruman, and Himmler.

Quite seriously, these tales will last a millenium. The Chaucer of the last 300 years.

[Ludi]

I think it is useful/helpful to know what the author meant, if he was willing to tell us. Saves us wondering, you know?

But if someone want it to be about WWII, for themselves, that's fine, I think, as long as they don't claim that's what the author meant (if he told us different).

[gampy]

Yeah, wasn't trying to shit on poor PMS, just wanted to clarify for him, if he believed (like many, it seems) that The Lord of the Rings was about WW2. Certainly, you could draw parallels, but I think it detracts from the enjoyment of a work of art to hang presumptions on it.
I can only imagine some poor kid sitting down with The Fellowship of the Ring for the first time, and trying to find the references to Hitler, while imagining Frodo's fright at his first encounter with the Black Rider.

Many works of art have been spoiled for me by reading the little plaques put there by curators. Or films, and novels, by reviewers, and marketing departments.

I suppose the use, and abuse, of allegory is a subject for another thread.

Lol, sorry to hijack this wonderful thread about one of my favorite authors. Didn't mean to nit-pick. Carry on!