[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sittinguy', 'H')e admits that the coal plants are very dirty, and fully contributes to GW, but says we will need the power one way or another, and we all know coal gives the best bang for the buck.

[LoneSnark]

So, Newfie, a government entity has declared that insufficient resources are being made available to the government. What the hell would you expect them to say!?!?

Has a government entity ever, in the history of mankind, proclaimed that its work was done and should be disbanded?

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', 'S')o, Newfie, a government entity has declared that insufficient resources are being made available to the government. What the hell would you expect them to say!?!?

Has a government entity ever, in the history of mankind, proclaimed that its work was done and should be disbanded?

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')
As for Phoenix using natural gas to provide its baseload, I'm curious how they manage to keep prices so low despite using such an expensive source.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sittinguy', 'w')e all know coal gives the best bang for the buck.

[aflatoxin]

Combined cycle plants are run all of the time. Phoenix is ringed by them, and there are a lot more plants planned. This is why a new 36" gas pipeline is getting built from the 4-corners area to phoenix. Most of these are ~600 MW, Gila bend is the biggest one I've seen. At one point, there were plans for at least 20 Frame 7 turbines here.

There are a lot of simple cycle plants too. These things are a giant waste of energy.

Those in sunny Arizona are also going to get many more of the fancy solar thermal plants I'm told.

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', 'H')as a government entity ever, in the history of mankind, proclaimed that its work was done and should be disbanded?

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sittinguy', 'w')e all know coal gives the best bang for the buck.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '.')..
The pros of coal is that it is cheap (on a monetary level, on a real level it's dead expensive cos of those externalities).
...

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'C')oal power plants are privately owned therefore the profits are privatized. Using that argument it doesn't matter where the hell you get your energy from EVERYTHING will be based on privatized profits. If the government passed a law stating we will transition away from fossil fuels and choose renewable power who do you think will own all the new windmills and solar panels? Does Joe Sixpack own this windmill or some very large corporation with deep pockets. How's that any different then what we have now?

[MrBill]

How do you make public policy to address the differences between the top 0.1% and the bottom 99.9% when capital is mobile?

Judging from that time scale the USA is still just approaching income inequality associated with the early 1900s. But in the mean time standards of living for everyone in America have risen dramatically.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Further, in 1972-91, living standards were rising twice as fast as conventionally measured. Costa also finds that the primary beneficiaries of these newly measured gains in per capita total expenditures in both these periods were lower income households.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', 'S')o, Newfie, a government entity has declared that insufficient resources are being made available to the government. What the hell would you expect them to say!?!?

Has a government entity ever, in the history of mankind, proclaimed that its work was done and should be disbanded?

[LoneSnark]

Ok, Newfie, my bad. NERC is not a government entity, but a quazi-government entity. Big difference.

The point is, it answers to the people which gain resources and power from scaring the public. As such, when it writes reports designed to scare the public I get skeptical.

[dohboi]

Great stats, starvid!

Back to the original topic of the thread--
Have you heard of global warming?

This isn't a "treehugger" thing--it's a matter of the future of the planet. If you don't give a hoot about that, say so. If you think AGW is made up, say so.

In fact what we need to do (or needed to do about 30 years ago) is shut down all the coal plants as soon as possible.

Utilities always project that need for their services is going to rise rapidly. (Or to paraphrase LS "Have you ever heard of a corporation that said that its services weren't important and that it should be closed down?")

Next question--Have you heard of the recession we're in and the depression we're entering?

What is that going to do to electricity demand?

Is sounds like your family member has drunk the corporate cool aid of what ever utility he works for.

We obviously have huge problems with our power infrastructure, but they mostly have to do with dirty sources of power, poor transmission abilities, and enormous waste at every level.

[Newfie]

LS,

OK and I too am frequently skeptical.

HOWEVER..................I do not believe that this is the intent of this report. If it is then it is the worst report I have ever read. Quite frankly it reads just the opposite, try to reassure without creating panic and not outright lying.

You would have to read at least the summary to get the gist of what I am trying to covey.

The points I summarized are what I took out of the report after a couple of hours trudging. That is my "take away" minus their sugar. A sour pill.

I'll tell you what, you read the summary, about 20 pages and then tell me what you think it says.

[halcyon]

US doesn't need any more new electricity capacity (not necessarily even renewing/replacement capacity at this scale).

The word is called:

Saving

90% of Americans should look it up in the dictionary, because they will have start learning in real life what it means.

Save energy, save fuels, save money.

You can't keep on spending forever what isn't there.

If US switched overt 100% to CFL lamps, cut down on house heating/cooling and turned off 50% of the advertisement lights during the night, this would reduce electricity need in spades and nobody would really suffer.

At least, not in the way if you get cascade blackouts in the next 10-15 years...

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('halcyon', '
')If US switched overt 100% to CFL lamps, cut down on house heating/cooling and turned off 50% of the advertisement lights during the night, this would reduce electricity need in spades and nobody would really suffer.