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1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby Oil-Finder » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 03:56:48

Here's your trivia of the day, for some perspective on scale.

The total amount of oil extracted in human history so far is about 1 trillion barrels (source). One barrel of oil contains 42 gallons. So, all the oil used by mankind so far is about 42 trillion gallons.

In comparison, Lake Ontario contains about 393 cubic miles of water. A cubic mile contains 1,101,117,140,000 gallons. So Lake Ontario contains about 432.7 trillion gallons of water.

In other words, the total amount of oil used by mankind to date is a little less than 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby Oil-Finder » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 04:15:09

Here's a map of North America, with the western ~1/10 of Lake Ontario colored red. Yep, that red blip represents the total amount of oil mankind has extracted and used to date.

Click on the image.
Image

BTW, please feel free to check my math in the post above.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 04:36:38

Everything's relative. The massive skyscraper of crude oil in "Crude - The Incredible Journey of Oil" leaves a different impression.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby s0cks » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 04:51:31

Just goes to prove how scarce a resource Oil really is. Built a whole civilization on a substance no bigger than a lake :(

Oh how we failed. We failed good.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby MD » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 05:09:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oil-Finder', '
')BTW, please feel free to check my math in the post above.


I'm sure your math is fine. My question: what's your point? Is there some relevant comparison between the amount of water on the planet and the amount oil?

I see no enhanced perspective in your post. In fact, I'd say it creates just the opposite. The uninformed will likely make inaccurate associations instead.
Last edited by MD on Fri 07 Mar 2008, 05:13:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby FreakOil » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 05:12:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oil-Finder', '
')BTW, please feel free to check my math in the post above.


I'm sure your math is fine. My question: what's your point? Is there some relevant comparison between the amount of water on the planet and the amount oil?


Whether or not it was his intention, he did do an adequate job showing the tremendous energy density of crude oil.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby TonyPrep » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 06:30:30

More trivia, which has no point whatsoever, except to demonstrate the power of the exponential function (excellently explained by Professor Albert Bartlett).

If we were using water like oil, over the last 150 years we'd have used only one tenth of Lake Ontario, leaving about 353 cubic miles left. How long would it take to use this remaining vast amount at, say, 1.5% growth per year? Well such a small percentage wouldn't have too much effect, surely? At present rates of consumption, we'd have 353 years of Lake Ontario left. But, at a rate that increases by 1.5% per year, it would be completely drained in 124 years, almost a third of the time that an R/P ratio indicates.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby MD » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 07:08:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oil-Finder', '.')..
Click on the image.
Image


Try this one instead.

Once you have that, highlight the regions known to be at or near peak.

That, my friend, will be a welcome and relevant picture of where we are at.

Thanks.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby kjmclark » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 10:25:55

OK, but Lake Ontario is fairly deep. People aren't very good at imagining volume of deep lakes. Lake Erie is a bit better example, since it's fairly shallow. Lake Erie is about 116 cubic miles.

This would then be almost exactly a third of Lake Erie, but since the western side is much shallower, it would actually be about the entire western half of Lake Erie. Even then, the average depth is about five stories down.

So, imagine a five-story building the size of the western half of Lake Erie and you have the volume of oil we've used. I've lived near Lake Erie most of my life, and I can assure you that that volume is utterly incomprehensible.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby MD » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 13:19:29

Have you read A Thousand Barrels a Second yet?

Niagara Falls flows at 150,000 gallons per second.

Since we are currently burning 42,000 gallons of oil per second, just imagine 1/3 of Niagara Falls flowing in oil.

That's what we are burning!

Now your images are in balance. 8)
Last edited by MD on Fri 07 Mar 2008, 16:22:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby Armageddon » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 15:34:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'H')ave you read A Thousand Barrels a Second yet?

Niagara Falls flows at 150,000 gallons per second.

Since we are currently burning 42,000 gallons of oil per second, just imagine 1/3 of Niagara Falls flowing in oil.

That's what we are burning!

Now your images are in balance. 8)



Nice
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby Kingcoal » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 15:47:54

Good thread; really puts things into perspective.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby joewp » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 17:20:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'G')ood thread; really puts things into perspective.


Somehow I don't think it went the way Oil-Finder meant it to. :-D
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby Oil-Finder » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 19:50:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '
')I'm sure your math is fine. My question: what's your point? Is there some relevant comparison between the amount of water on the planet and the amount oil?

I see no enhanced perspective in your post. In fact, I'd say it creates just the opposite. The uninformed will likely make inaccurate associations instead.

As I said:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oil-Finder', 'H')ere's your trivia of the day, for some perspective on scale.

Nothing more.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby Oil-Finder » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 19:54:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'H')ave you read A Thousand Barrels a Second yet?

Niagara Falls flows at 150,000 gallons per second.

Since we are currently burning 42,000 gallons of oil per second, just imagine 1/3 of Niagara Falls flowing in oil.

That's what we are burning!

Now your images are in balance. 8)

Ah yes, but compare the flow of Niagara Falls to the scale of the entire world, and it is miniscule.

Is oil extracted and used throughout the entire world? Or is it used just around Niagara Falls? Since it is extracted and used around the entire world, the entire world would be the relevant frame of reference.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby steam_cannon » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 20:30:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joewp', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'G')ood thread; really puts things into perspective.


Somehow I don't think it went the way Oil-Finder meant it to. :-D
Actually I think it worked out just as Oilfinder hoped, people
commented that it sounds like an effective piece of disinformation for
dumb people. So Oilfinder added this thread to his sig line. Most dumb
people won't read past the first paragraph of this thread and oilfinder
can argue it's just trivia, as he already did. And Oilfinder will
probably at some point post "see my sigline" as proof that oil use is trivial.

He's certainly not going to repost any of MD's or kjmclark's
comments, posting facts out of context is much more fun.
And if we are trying to put things out of context, maybe he's right,
1/3 of a shallow "five story deep" lake like Lake Erie, just doesn't
put things out of context enough. Lets use as deep a lake as we
can find. I suggest he use Lake Baikal it's over 5300 feet deep!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')img]http://i32.tinypic.com/2i7bfo8.png[/img]
(Lower right of map)

Lake Baikal has as much water as all of North America's Great Lakes
combined — 23,600 cubic kilometers (5,662.4 cu mi), about one fifth
of the total fresh water on the earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Baikal
See that little "blip" on the map, that's 1/5 the fresh water on earth.

Lake Baikal
(42 trillion US gallons) / (5662.4 * 1101117140000 US gallons) = 0.0067%

Lake Ontario
(42 trillion US gallons) / (393 * 1101117140000 US gallons) = 0.097%

Add Lake Baikal to your sigline Oilfinder! It's just trivia, wink wink... :-D
Last edited by steam_cannon on Fri 07 Mar 2008, 20:38:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby MD » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 20:33:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oil-Finder', '.').
Is oil extracted and used throughout the entire world? Or is it used just around Niagara Falls? Since it is extracted and used around the entire world, the entire world would be the relevant frame of reference.


Which brings us right back to this map, as I referenced up-thread.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby steam_cannon » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 20:43:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oil-Finder', '.').
Is oil extracted and used throughout the entire world? Or is it used just around Niagara Falls? Since it is extracted and used around the entire world, the entire world would be the relevant frame of reference.


Which brings us right back to this map, as I referenced up-thread.
Yeah, but arguing about blips is much more fun.
If the blip don't fit, you must acquit! :lol:
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby Oil-Finder » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 20:49:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oil-Finder', '.').
Is oil extracted and used throughout the entire world? Or is it used just around Niagara Falls? Since it is extracted and used around the entire world, the entire world would be the relevant frame of reference.


Which brings us right back to this map, as I referenced up-thread.

In reference to your previous question, if only 1/4 of the sedimentary basins in a developed nation like Australia have ever been explored for oil, you can be sure that the majority of the basins on your map are not only not at peak oil production, but have also probably not even been explored for oil, or at best have only been lightly explored. Heck, they're even finding sedimentary basins filled with hydrocarbons which they had no idea held any resources at all until recently.
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Re: 1/10th the volume of Lake Ontario

Unread postby MD » Fri 07 Mar 2008, 21:25:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oil-Finder', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oil-Finder', '.').
Is oil extracted and used throughout the entire world? Or is it used just around Niagara Falls? Since it is extracted and used around the entire world, the entire world would be the relevant frame of reference.


Which brings us right back to this map, as I referenced up-thread.

In reference to your previous question, if only 1/4 of the sedimentary basins in a developed nation like Australia have ever been explored for oil, you can be sure that the majority of the basins on your map are not only not at peak oil production, but have also probably not even been explored for oil, or at best have only been lightly explored. Heck, they're even finding sedimentary basins filled with hydrocarbons which they had no idea held any resources at all until recently.


Good! Then why don't you please go right ahead and prepare the map! Show us our good news and skip the silliness!
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