[Serendipity]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lowem', 'Y')up, as peakoilers naturally we're interested in all things peak, and so far we've got not only oil and gas but also precious metals like gold & silver and now even base metals like copper.From the consumption angle, there's also peak food, water & fish, and recently there's been some mention of peak arable land too.For energy alternatives, we've also heard talk of peak uranium, peak coal, and there's also been talk of peaks in the more exotic stuff like platinum, palladium & molybdenum as well.

[AmericanEmpire]

You know I think if we had enough oil we'd keep on going till we paved over the last patch of farmland and cut down the last tree. '8O'

[PhilBiker]

Silver is another one - I think silver peaked in the 20s or 30s. Most of the silver today comes from trasuries and banks. Now that money is "faith based" paper the silver isn't needed any more. But it's CRITICAL for many industries, and absolutely necessary for solar panel production.

Limits to Growth is a good read.

[bobcousins]

One of those inconsequential links...

During the decline of the Roman empire, gold and silver coins were mixed with cheaper metals. In the UK of course, we stopped using gold and silver in coins. A few years ago, the cheapest coins made of copper, stopped working in a large number of vending machines. Now even cheap copper coins are just copper plated.

Signs of the times?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bobcousins', 'O')ne of those inconsequential links...

During the decline of the Roman empire, gold and silver coins were mixed with cheaper metals. In the UK of course, we stopped using gold and silver in coins. A few years ago, the cheapest coins made of copper, stopped working in a large number of vending machines. Now even cheap copper coins are just copper plated.

Signs of the times?

[Bandidoz]

The first steps on the road to a Mad-Max future are being taken. We could build all sorts of lovely equipment to cope with the future, only for it to become scavenged. So-called "scrappers" are forging Societal Entropy. link
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he city of Orlando alone has seen 142 cases of copper theft and 51 cases of aluminum theft so far this year. That's twice as many as in the same period last year. ...
Besides taking an axe to the cooling system on the roof of his four-story building on Central Boulevard, the burglars hacked apart a large dish antenna for its aluminum tubing. After being hit the second time, Fowler hired a security guard to sit on the roof every night until he got the fence up.

[NEOPO]

I know first hand that on several occassions aerial telecom cable has been stolen from the local telco plant.

This is not uncommon - the uncommon part of what has been happening lately is that the cable was aerial and working.

Once theives get wise to those 900 pair cables dangling everywhere with no chance of death by electrocution - they will be all over them.

[SILENTTODD]

When I first started at Pacific Telephone 26 years ago I use to see reels of copper cable stacked unattended behind Central Offices on my nightly forays doing prebuilds of circuits at a number of CO’s in the inland area of Southern California. I think this was probably a typical scene for the previous half century of Telco. Sometime in the late 80’s I first started hearing from buddies or even the news of the theft of copper cable from the Telco storage yards. And you have to realize, one of these reels must of weighed in the neighborhood of 500 to 1000 lbls or more. I have not seen a cable reel other than on a cable truck since the early 90’s. I understand they are stored inside under lock and key at all times now.

[aflatoxin]

Thieves have also made off with several semi trucks loaded with copper cathodes from the copper mines on the NM/AZ border.

These trucks are carrying a full load of copper plates about 6 foot square and a foot thick to the copper refineries and wire plants. Probably 40,000+ pounds per truck. At $3 a pound, a pretty good haul.

[Tanada]

How long until cheaper metals are used as sustitutes wherever possible? You can after all make effective house wire out of steel, however it has a higher resistence than copper so it wastes more energy to use it. Sadly the better a metal conducts electricity the more it costs, for the most part at least. Copper is better than iron, silver better than copper, gold better than silver, platinum better than gold and so on.

[BigTex]

Thieves have been stealing industrial metals for years, nothing new there. I've seen people steal chain link fence, plumbing, building supplies from construction sites, you name it. If it's not bolted down and it has value and it's not guarded someone will steal it.

This is not society falling apart. It's just thieves practicing their trade.

When you see police stations being gutted and the fixtures being sold for scrap, that's when you'll know there is a problem.

Kind of like that Britsh base in Iraq that was "turned over" to the Iraqis recently.

[Denny]

There has been a raft of copper thefts in the form of old church roofs in parts of Canada. Imagine that, stealing from the Lord.

Apparently, they used a very heavy gauge of copper on those roof structures.

[Falconoffury]

Tanada, you are incorrect. Silver has the highest electrical conductivity on the periodic table. Gold and platinum are more valuable due to supply and other factors.

[emersonbiggins]

I just saw a story on the local news about a recent string of copper thefts from Dallas area churches & businesses that have residents signing a petition that, if approved, would prohibit anyone but professional contractors from selling copper to scrapyards. An interesting twist, indeed. Is this the beginning of a black market for copper?

The story below is from a couple of days back, describing the original event spurring the petition.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')ALLAS -- Thieves broke into a small Dallas church and stole thousands of dollars worth of copper wiring last week.

The Pleasant Oaks Missionary Baptist Church has been in Dallas for 56 years, but the neighborhood is very different that what it was in the early days.

The church installed bars on the door after burglars broke in three times a few years ago. Last year, thieves stole three different air-conditioning units.

The church installed a cage around the units after the last theft. Church officials said they think the extra height actually helped last week's burglars break into the attic.

On Wednesday, a neighbor called to say that water was pouring out of the church's doors. When staff members arrived, they discovered that copper wiring worth thousands of dollars was missing from the roof, and thousands more dollars in damage had been done.
...

[Pretorian]

btw, not sure about now, but 10 years ago 6--700 men in Russia were dying while stealing copper every year.

[shakespear1]

Here in Poland this is going on all the time. High power lines for rail would suddenly be ripped off and traffic would be down for some hours.

Living is getting tough for some people and this looks like an option for some

[Dukkha]

At first I thought this was something to do with corrupt police, but yes, this has been reported in England. External copper gas pipes have been nicked from houses during the night, leaving gas pouring out. Nice.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'H')ow long until cheaper metals are used as sustitutes wherever possible? You can after all make effective house wire out of steel, however it has a higher resistence than copper so it wastes more energy to use it. Sadly the better a metal conducts electricity the more it costs, for the most part at least. Copper is better than iron, silver better than copper, gold better than silver, platinum better than gold and so on.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'H')ow long until cheaper metals are used as sustitutes wherever possible? You can after all make effective house wire out of steel, however it has a higher resistence than copper so it wastes more energy to use it. Sadly the better a metal conducts electricity the more it costs, for the most part at least. Copper is better than iron, silver better than copper, gold better than silver, platinum better than gold and so on.

[steam_cannon]

Check this out! (doomer laugh) $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Some homes worth less than their copper pipes link

"They cut it here and then pulled it right out of the wall," real estate broker Marc Charney said, pointing to broken plaster near a wrecked baseboard heating system in the 2,774-sq-ft home in Brockton, Massachusetts, a working-class city of 94,304 people. Similar stories are unfolding nationwide as a glut of home foreclosures coincides with record highs in the price of copper and other metals.

Real estate brokers and local authorities say once-proud homes coast-to-coast are being stripped for copper, aluminum, and brass by thieves. Much of it ends up with scrap metal traders who say nearly all copper gets shipped overseas, much of it to China and India. In areas hit hardest by foreclosures, such as the Slavic Village neighborhood of Cleveland, Ohio, copper and other metals used in plumbing, heating systems and telephone lines are now more valuable than some homes.

"We're in an incredibly unfortunate time where the nonferrous metals commodities market for scrap is at an all-time high. Houses are getting stripped pretty quickly once they go through the foreclosure process," Cleveland city councilor Tony Brancatelli said.