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What's Worth Fighting For?

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

What's Worth Fighting For?

Unread postby BigTex » Sat 16 Feb 2008, 23:37:24

I would gladly use violence to protect myself, my family, or my property. I would probably also be willing to use violence to protect an old lady or someone who was obviously being taken advantage of.

Beyond that, though, the situations in which I would be willing to use violence are harder to pin down.

I would participate in a military action if my country was attacked by another country. I don't know that I would be too excited about being drafted to fight in a Vietnam-kind of thing, though.

Aside from the situations above, what would you risk your life fighting for?

If you were drafted to go fight somewhere like Iraq would you go? Once there would you kill people who were defending THEIR homes? Would you be comfortable killing people just based upon the fact that they were shooting at you, even if perhaps they had the moral high ground since it is their country?

Anybody want to fight anytime anywhere just for the hell of it?

Evel Knievel once said that he had had a full life and the only thing that he had never done that he always wanted to was kill somebody. But that dude was crazy.
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Re: What's Worth Fighting For?

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Sat 16 Feb 2008, 23:38:47

Read Richard Dawkins.
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Re: What's Worth Fighting For?

Unread postby BigTex » Sat 16 Feb 2008, 23:58:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'R')ead Richard Dawkins.


I took a look at his Wiki entry. Interesting.

I suppose that filtering my ideas through his prism I would say that I would not be willing to fight because my government told me to because I just don't trust that my government has MY best interests at heart, and is not well-equipped to make good decisions even if it did have my best interests at heart. Even if my wife and kids don't always have my best interests at heart, I feel like I made a commitment to protect them along the way. I never made the same unconditional commitment to my government (and my government sure as hell never made that same commitment to me).

OTOH, if it was obvious that the interests of my government overlapped with my own, I would fight, because it would be in my self interest to do so.

Asking someone to kill someone else to enhance YOUR power ("YOUR" being the current government) and to risk their life in doing so is a pretty big thing to ask. It's comical that people who question this are labeled unpatriotic. I would say it's probably more accurate to label a government illegitimate that asks its citizens to fight pointless wars.

I am always amused when someone in law enforcement acts like the law is the same as morality. The law is an arbitrary set of rules enacted by a group of legislators. There is nothing inherently righteous about any law.
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Re: What's Worth Fighting For?

Unread postby Narz » Sun 17 Feb 2008, 00:04:28

The protect myself, someone I loved, someone innocent.

Also to protect my land or property.

That's about it. Any other use seems inappropriate.
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Re: What's Worth Fighting For?

Unread postby topcat » Sun 17 Feb 2008, 00:44:02

Here we are at doomer-central:

Change the word 'goverment' to 'community'

Now, would you kill to protect?
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Re: What's Worth Fighting For?

Unread postby Cloud9 » Sun 17 Feb 2008, 09:53:23

Big Tex, law is either mala en se or mala prohibita. The former refers to a moral law the latter to a rule.
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Re: What's Worth Fighting For?

Unread postby BigTex » Sun 17 Feb 2008, 12:23:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'B')ig Tex, law is either mala en se or mala prohibita. The former refers to a moral law the latter to a rule.


We may be saying the same thing, but I think that it is more often both moral and rule intertwined. It's the untangling that is the challenge.

If there is a law that says you can't kill people on Tuesdays, I would say the not killing people part is a legitimate moral guideline, whereas the Tuesday part is just a stupid rule that has no moral element whatsoever.

The example above is easy but untangling many of our laws is much harder. Most people just accept the law as wholly moral (or reject it all as illegitimate); thus, people feel like they've done something WRONG when they get a speeding ticket.

A couple of amusing examples to me are when a tow truck driver tows your car from a no parking zone, you have to pay to get your car back. When a private citizen takes your car it's a felony.

When the government detains someone on suspicion of committing a crime or for questioning it is considered a legitimate use of state power. When a private citizen does the same thing it's called kidnapping.

I'm all for a well functioning government, I just think that government employees should be mindful that public respect for their authority requires the prudent and restrained use of that authority.
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