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THE US Trade Gap Thread (merged)

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Re: Trade Deficit Soars to Record

Postby Longsword » Tue 19 Dec 2006, 17:43:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DantesPeak', '
')Since there is no cure for the US$’s problems, to some extent it makes sense for the central banks of the world to keep the US$ regime going. Granted the US and its almost $1 trillion yearly current account deficit is like drug addict going for ever larger fixes and getting in worse and worse shape. But no one intentionally wants to cut off the addict for fear the addict might become like a wild animal.

Possibly what other countries want for the dollar may eventually not matter anyway. The price of energy may go so high as to make the current account deficit no longer supportable by foreigners. In that doomsday scenario, the US$ has no level or natural value to which it could fall.


My thoughts exactly.

Even the current situation might somehow be acceptable, since if the rest of the world harnesses all their economies to provide products and commodities for US to waste in exchange for the printed US funny money, but since this spending with abandon keeps accelerating, it might be that at some point the rest of us simply cannot give US everything it demands for orgy of consumerism even if we'd want to for the sake of world peace.

In this situation, US will have to default to brute force to acquire what it wants, since the American way of life is non-negotiable.

Better for rest of the world to build their economies, energy solutions and armies to the point where US can be phased out slowly, with minimum pain methinks. But even this will not work if Peak Oil truly is upon us, we just won't have the time.
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Re: Trade Deficit Soars to Record

Postby MrBill » Wed 20 Dec 2006, 09:26:47

Euric wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he rest of the world isn't willing to go on like this. If you take a hint from the article, Germany is booming and confidence is increasing because Germany has learned to find other buyers for their products and not rely on the US. Thus when the US does fall they will take no one with them.



I guess you're wrong then. China's exports to the EU have been growing faster than their exports to the USA in 2006. Meanwhile, the US' exports have been growing in 2006 due to a weaker dollar.

I look at it like this. Sorry, I have to distill my ideas down to bite sized pieces or I cannot understand them myself.

If a town councellor argues that lengthening store opening hours will stimulate the economy, and add X to the GDP, I have to think about it as the consumer has Y to spend. Whether they spend Y in 8-hours 6-days a week or 12-hours 7-days a week they are limited by how much money is left at the end of the month, Y , not by how long the stores are open. Okay, you can throw in some part-time work for teenagers and the under employed, but without primary and secondary industry to support consumer spending, longer store hours are not likely to result in more money being spent by consumers, but it will increase their convenience factor.

Although Germany runs a healthy $195 billion 12-mos. trade surplus with Europe and the rest of the world, the EU actually has a $24 billion deficit in tradables. Oops.

Also, if America's trade deficit soars to a record, by default it would indicate to me that someone else's trade surplus also reached records? Or is America trading with extraterrestrials?


Your hatred for everything American seems to blind you to the detriment of your overall posts that contain many valid points. Something you may want to work on in 2007 as your New Year's resolution?

I think your metric argument is a good one. But it is not the whole story - by a mile! ; - )
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US trade deficit breaks new high in 2006

Postby dukey » Tue 13 Feb 2007, 19:29:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ASHINGTON - Sky-high oil prices and Americans' insatiable hunger for Chinese goods drove the US trade deficit to a record high of 763.6 billion dollars in 2006, the government said.


http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/US_tr ... _0213.html
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Re: US trade deficit breaks new high in 2006

Postby neocone » Tue 13 Feb 2007, 19:36:41

Simply means the US exchanges its status as a "superpower" and leverages its military muscle to exchange real goods for paper printed in a few locations around Washington...

Of course this process is declining faster than the slowdown of the Gulf Stream due to global warming but some inertia remains.

In fact this is the Hey Day of the process right here right now... historians will ponder on this as the peak of Empire.
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Re: US trade deficit breaks new high in 2006

Postby MOCKBA » Tue 13 Feb 2007, 22:25:08

US exports break new high in 2006 as well and Boeing outsell Airbus. Imports surged too thanks to currency manipulations in Asia. 20% import levy will pretty much fix the issue. Would Democratic Congress overpower President to impose import levy on China after all? They are long overdue.
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Re: US trade deficit breaks new high in 2006

Postby Euric » Wed 14 Feb 2007, 00:09:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MOCKBA', 'U')S exports break new high in 2006 as well and Boeing outsell Airbus. Imports surged too thanks to currency manipulations in Asia. 20% import levy will pretty much fix the issue. Would Democratic Congress overpower President to impose import levy on China after all? They are long overdue.


http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070213/economy.html?.v=14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hey noted that more than 3 million manufacturing jobs have been lost since Bush took office, with about one-third of those losses attributed to the rising deficit in manufactured goods.


If the US is losing manufacturing jobs to other nations, then one has to wonder where this so-called surge is coming from. Even if the US has some manufacturing capability left, the fact that the US doesn't function in the metric system turns off many a prospective buyer even if America's goods are cheaper due to a falling dollar.

American goods may appear cheaper on the surface but trying to work with non-metric goods in a metric world adds costs that offset the cheaper cost of purchase due to the falling dollar.

Germany, a producer of metric goods is the worlds largest exporter and saw its exports rise by 14 % over 2005 figures

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/ ... xports.php

This would say that despite the rising euro there is a desire to buy metric designed and produced goods from world wide customers.
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Re: US trade deficit breaks new high in 2006

Postby Colorado-Valley » Wed 14 Feb 2007, 02:44:56

Seems like all the U.S. needs to do is bring its wage structure more in line with places like China and Vietnam ...

:-D
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Re: US trade deficit breaks new high in 2006

Postby eXpat » Wed 14 Feb 2007, 07:45:05

Interesting article about the cost of war here, borrowed money well expended creating anti-americanism.
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Re: US trade deficit breaks new high in 2006

Postby Bas » Wed 14 Feb 2007, 08:06:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')he fact that the US doesn't function in the metric system turns off many a prospective buyer even if America's goods are cheaper due to a falling dollar.


that's not true, American products in Europe are all in metric (it really doesn't take much to produce something and paint metric on it.
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Re: US trade deficit breaks new high in 2006

Postby MrBill » Wed 14 Feb 2007, 10:04:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')he fact that the US doesn't function in the metric system turns off many a prospective buyer even if America's goods are cheaper due to a falling dollar.


that's not true, American products in Europe are all in metric (it really doesn't take much to produce something and paint metric on it.


A more detailed breakdown shows some interesting trends, and, yes, America did export more including to Europe.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he first is that US exports grew quite strongly in 2006. And goods exports outperformed services (and Boeing outperformed everyone). Total exports were up 12.75%, goods exports were up 14.4% and Boeing (civil aviation) exports were up 38.8%. On y/y basis, q4 exports were right in line with those trends.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The fourth big story -- one that is somewhat controversial for reasons that elude me -- is that exchange rate adjustment works. US exports to China were up by about $13.3b (32% -- though the december increase was 21-22%, suggesting a slowdown in the pace of growth), but US imports from China were up by $44.3b. The bilateral deficit with China continued to grow. That is true of the Asian Pacific region writ large as well -- US exports to the rest of the Pacific Rim increased by $20.5b, but imports were up by $22.8b. The overall goods balance with the Pacific Rim deteriorated by about $33.3b.

Both the yuan and the yen are fairly weak -- and certainly haven't moved as much against the dollar as the euro and the pound over the past few years. So it is worth comparing the evolution of the US trade balance with the Pacific Rim to the evolution of the US trade balance with Europe. US exports to the EU increased by $27.5b in 2006 (14.8%), while US imports only increased by $21.8b (7.05%), so the US trade deficit with Europe actually fell.
The 2006 trade data

So much for the US dollar's adjustment against the euro and its effects on trade patterns, now we need to address prolific US budget deficits as well as yen and yuan weakness against the euro, too!
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Re: US trade deficit breaks new high in 2006

Postby MrMambo » Wed 14 Feb 2007, 16:01:06

Goods export... hmm

I wonder how much of that 14.4% increase in exports are related to millitary purchases, and how much is related to pharma. On about everything else I don't see USA as a winner.

As far as I understand the american weapons industry is the real winner amoungst a bunch of loosers in the US manufacturing industry.

In a time of fiercer global competition and harder times the fragile intellectual property rights of the pharmasuitical industry may fall victim. I guess those who know how to produce a medisine and needs that medicine are not going to sit there and respect flimsy intellectual property rights.

China, India and greater Asia will eventually overtake the US and Europe on pharma by sheer force of the number of talented young scientists employed in R&D in that sector in those countries.

This is not the hay day of USA. Its just a country that amassed so much power and influence over the world that it can quite efficiently cling to a lot of the remains of that power on its way down.

I will say that the time when the soviet empire was brought down economically, millitary and politically to its knees after bleeding in afganistan for a long long time without any prospects of victory: that was probably the Hay Day of US power.

Also the years of totalitarian marked liberalization reforms pushed by the US led IMF and the wold bank wich gave especially the US, but also Western Europe and Japan access dirt cheep natural resources and farm produce from the third world, was a signifficant show of power.

But those power-effects are now only in their lingering phases and will probably fade away as nations starts to value their resources and starts enforcing democratic controll (instead of foreign corporate) of their national economy to a higher degree.
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Re: US trade deficit breaks new high in 2006

Postby MrBill » Thu 15 Feb 2007, 04:38:49

MrMambo wrote:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut those power-effects are now only in their lingering phases and will probably fade away as nations starts to value their resources and starts enforcing democratic controll (instead of foreign corporate) of their national economy to a higher degree.


I wish you were right, but no developing country that is a net exporter of commodities, base metals or energy that I know of are using these higher prices to do anything like plan for their future or improve their infrastructure, and many are simply spending their largesse or it is being pilfered by their corrupt governments.

Even in countries like Chile that have done a decent job of ring fencing their windfall profits from high copper prices are finding it hard to safe guard that money for the future against demands to spend it now.

Please do not tell me about the Bolivar Revolution because then I will be forced to laugh at your naivete'! ; - )
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Re: US trade deficit breaks new high in 2006

Postby Euric » Sat 17 Feb 2007, 23:55:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')he fact that the US doesn't function in the metric system turns off many a prospective buyer even if America's goods are cheaper due to a falling dollar.


that's not true, American products in Europe are all in metric (it really doesn't take much to produce something and paint metric on it.


Not all American companies operate in obsolete units. Some know that if they want to be prosperous and have markets anywhere in the world they will use metric so that their products are marketable in the whole world.

As long as those companies make their products to rounded, usable metric sizes you won't notice them as being anything other then metric. But the goods that aren't made or described in rounded metric sizes never make it to European markets as they are silently boycotted.

Here is an example of a an American business (lumber) that had to switch its operations to producing in metric sizes so they could sell in Europe. Other companies would rather go out of business then have to change to a far superior way of measuring and producing.

http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=51499
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Trade Deficit Up Again on Oil Imports

Postby oilfreeandhappy » Thu 10 May 2007, 11:06:17

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070510/economy.html?.v=12

Grim news again for the US Economy regarding the Trade Deficit. Even though our imports to China grew at a record pace, our trade deficit still went up.

"The trade deficit shot up in March to the highest level in six months, driven by a big jump in imported oil. The politically sensitive deficit with China shrank as U.S. exports to that country hit an all-time high...It reflected a big 17.6 percent jump in oil imports, which climbed to $24.6 billion, the highest level in six months."

Any type of decrease in American Oil Consumption will help with this deficit. It's hard to believe, with the cost of gasoline, that we continue to consume so much oil. Cycling could play a role, but I believe Mass Transit and smaller, more fuel efficient cars are the key. A smaller fleet of cars would help cycling also, leaving more room for cyclists on the road.
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Re: Trade Deficit Up Again on Oil Imports

Postby Clouseau2 » Thu 10 May 2007, 12:24:03

Not to worry, as long as we still have hard assets foreigners can buy, they will keep accepting our monopoly money. Once we no longer have hard assets, we just declare all foreigners terrorists and seize the assets.
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Re: Trade Deficit Up Again on Oil Imports

Postby DYBoulet » Thu 10 May 2007, 12:37:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Clouseau2', 'N')ot to worry, as long as we still have hard assets foreigners can buy, they will keep accepting our monopoly money. Once we no longer have hard assets, we just declare all foreigners terrorists and seize the assets.


Shhh. That's supposed to be a secret... [smilie=glasses7.gif]
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Re: Trade Deficit Up Again on Oil Imports

Postby steam_cannon » Thu 10 May 2007, 16:17:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Clouseau2', 'N')ot to worry, as long as we still have hard assets foreigners can buy, they will keep accepting our monopoly money. Once we no longer have hard assets, we just declare all foreigners terrorists and seize the assets.
That about sums things up... :lol:
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Re: Trade Deficit Up Again on Oil Imports

Postby Newsseeker » Sun 13 May 2007, 09:05:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Clouseau2', 'N')ot to worry, as long as we still have hard assets foreigners can buy, they will keep accepting our monopoly money. Once we no longer have hard assets, we just declare all foreigners terrorists and seize the assets.
That about sums things up... :lol:


They won't be foreigners but rather subjects because we will have occupied their countries.
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US trade deficit declines in 2007, despite oil price jump

Postby Tyler_JC » Fri 15 Feb 2008, 19:27:23

Trade deficit declines by 6.2% in 2007.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')WASHINGTON - Despite a soaring foreign oil bill and another record deficit with China, the overall U.S. trade deficit declined in 2007 after setting records for five consecutive years.

The Commerce Department reported Thursday that the deficit dropped to $711.6 billion last year, a decline of 6.2 percent. The trade deficit with China continued to rise, jumping by 10.2 percent to $256.3 billion. That was the largest gap ever recorded with a single country, as Chinese imports surged despite a string of high-profile recalls of tainted products.


J curve anyone?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he shape of the trend of a country’s trade balance following a devaluation. A lower exchange rate initially means cheaper exports and more expensive imports, making the current account worse (a bigger deficit or smaller surplus). After a while, though, the volume of exports will start to rise because of their lower price to foreign buyers, and domestic consumers will buy fewer of the costlier imports. Eventually, the trade balance will improve on what it was before the devaluation.


My conclusion:

The dollar has been dropping in value for years. At first, the higher dollar cost of imported goods (especially oil and other commodities) led to a much larger trade deficit.

Then US consumers reduced their consumption of foreign goods or at the very least, decreased the rate at which their consumption of foreign products increased. In the mean time, US exports increased dramatically and are increasing at a faster rate than imports.

The result is a lower trade deficit DESPITE massively increased oil prices.

This likely means that the US will be able to sustain higher energy prices without risking a complete dollar collapse because its exports are growing faster than its non-oil imports.

US consumers will be worse off but the country as a whole will be more fiscally stable.
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Re: US trade deficit declines in 2007, despite oil price jum

Postby joewp » Sat 16 Feb 2008, 01:27:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')
US consumers will be worse off but the country as a whole will be more fiscally stable.


What a disconnection with reality. What is the country "as a whole" but the sum of the US citizens? (I refuse to use the dehumanizing term "consumer") This is so typical of economist's ivory tower thinking. Some people "worse off" is fine, as long as it's not them...
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