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PeakOil is You

THE Daniel Yergin Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: The new math of oil

Unread postby shortonoil » Mon 05 Nov 2007, 12:48:30

yull said:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow long can this doomed ship stay up? Oil production doesn't look to be heading up next year, so the strain and the amount of water gushing in is going to increase. Prices will go up further and shortages will probably increase globally, and it just gets worse from then on.


Oil production rates are only part of the equation. We extract oil primarily for its energy content, and its energy content is heading downward rapidly. There can be no doubt about this, because the ERoEI value of oil has been well established and charted for almost a hundred years, and its ERoEI has been declining since the first wells were drilled. It appears that this decline rate is presently somewhere in the area of 8% per year, and accelerating. No possible oil discovery on the planet could be large enough to compensate for it.

This doomed ship will probably stay afloat until the monetary system breaks down; as it is the most fragile and vulnerable essential component of our modern civilization. Watch the world's currencies, when the wheels start rolling off the financial systems, the wheels will also start rolling off everything else.

You may even see a few bridges collapse as a prelude.
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Yergin Watch

Unread postby pup55 » Mon 07 Jan 2008, 20:27:39

We at PO.com periodically see fit to dedicate a special thread to an individual oil industy "expert" whose works are of such a nature as to be worthy of special scrutiny. In this instance, the individual is Daniel Yergin, head of CERA, perma-cornucopian and frequent talking head on the cable news shows, whenever they need someone who will say "remain calm, all is well".

Savinar's site today has the following delightful link, which I proudly use to kick off the thread: The Sad Record of Daniel Yergin I am particularly impressed with the following graph, authored by Mr. G. R. Morton, which I would like to highlight.

Image Although as news sleuths, we cannot hold the jock strap of Mr. Morton, I hope that the frequent viewers of PO.com will feel free to post other quotes from Mr. Yergin and CERA as they appear in the media by adding to this thread and commenting appropriately.

Note: I understand that PO.com has been asked not to directly quote material from CERA's website, which is not surprising in light of its record of chronic incorrectness, but material from other media, news services and other sources are by all means fair game, as long as quoted appropriately as listed in the code of conduct and other places on this website. I hope the fellow viewers enjoy this as much as I will.
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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby pup55 » Mon 07 Jan 2008, 20:30:51

link Here is a link from today's thread, thanks to JohnnyMac.
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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby Twilight » Mon 07 Jan 2008, 22:37:53

Thank you. :twisted: A couple of recent offerings from CERA:
$70-90 barrel price range for crude in 2008. While I am not inclined to dispute this, they blame market psychology rather than fundamentals. I think they overestimate the importance of the former and underestimate the importance of the latter. Greatly. We need a recession to see those prices, and that is a real, not a "mind over matter" factor. Ultimately I may be wrong, but as an amateur, that would not be surprising. In that event however, they would be wrong for the 7th year running.

Last week CERA belatedly accepted $100 oil. $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CERA', 'H')istorical assumptions about the dynamics of oil prices, demand, supply, and the global economy have given way to a new, but still unfolding, paradigm.

In other words, they got it wrong. No-one had to cling to historical assumptions. Indeed, everyone else bailed. Ironic that the internet had domains named after that paradigm the whole time. There is more on $100+ oil being harmful to economies if sustained for 6-12 months, but that is standard fare updated with the new high.

This is of interest: $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CERA', 'T')he all-time inflation-adjusted high was in April 1980, when, CERA calculates, crude oil hit $99.04 per barrel in terms of 2007 US dollars.

They are not playing the moving goalpost game. New highs have been set. We can hold them to it.
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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby threadbear » Mon 07 Jan 2008, 22:49:08

I'm horrified to hear that he was partly responsible for "The Commanding Heights". Total pos propaganda for elite kleptocrats. I can now easily dismiss every word out of the sphincter of this guy's pie hole.
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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 08 Jan 2008, 13:14:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ergin Watch
Is there anything to watch? For last several years CERA is so constantly wrong, that no one sane would take their statements seriously, unless s/he is an economist.
IMO CERA is just a propaganda tube of business world.
Their primary purpose is to extend status quo for a while, to allow better informed investor class make some final profits before our economy finally goes down a drain. I think, it have been stated here often enough...
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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby Twilight » Tue 08 Jan 2008, 15:43:32

If in a few months CERA raise an alarm over adequacy of supplies and turn bullish, and then oil gives back $30, I will be drawing conclusions.
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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby Bas » Tue 08 Jan 2008, 16:31:07

here's one, in which he seems to acknowledge inderectly his bad track record of predicting price:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')Predicting oil prices continually demonstrates the perils of prophecy, because oil prices are the derivative of what happens in the global economy and global geopolitics," said Daniel Yergin, chairman of Cambridge Energy Research Associates. Yergin said he could foresee oil prices surging as high as $150 in the next few years or falling as low as $40.
International Herald Tribune

Seems to me he learned his lesson of being specific and wrong; this must be the least specific or rather the most vague "prediction" I've possibly ever heard.
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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby pup55 » Sun 13 Jan 2008, 08:59:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A'): In our view, the current price is somewhat de-coupled from the fundamentals of supply and demand. The market is tight, but we think without these other factors at work, particularly the dollar, the fear of disruption, and the rapid acceleration of costs, we wouldn't see prices where they are now. There's one other factor that's brought us there - it's just the momentum. There's this kind of excitement about it in international markets. People expected it to happen. So to some degree there's been a self-fulfilling prophesy in this.


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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby pup55 » Mon 28 Jan 2008, 23:57:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')Globalization is not going to go away – the question is what kind of globalization do we have,” said Daniel Yergin, Chairman of Cambridge Energy Research Associates (CERA)

Yergin with all of the High Rollers at DAVOS Exchange Post
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here's a split between those who are in finance and those who are in more general industries,'' Daniel Yergin, chairman of Massachusetts-based Cambridge Energy Research Associates Inc., said in an interview. ``The buildup of these very large financial surpluses in the energy exporters and the Asian manufacturing exporters has coincided with this crisis.''

Bloomberg
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')il expert Daniel Yergin, chairman of Cambridge Energy Research, said US$90-$100 a barrel oil prices have hurt economic growth — and the world might be using 50% more energy 25 years from now. "The question is what kind of energy, how efficiently, and how cleanly," he said.

"Everything's open for business right now," Yergin said. "I've never seen so much focus on innovation all across the energy spectrum," from conventional energy to ultra deep waters and renewable sources like solar and wind power. "Maybe 5 to 10 years from now what we'll have is a more diversified energy picture, and perhaps people will be driving a car that gets 70 miles per gallon. They may be driving electric cars, cars with batteries, or hybrids," he said.
USA Today
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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby joewp » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 02:50:27

Simmons on Yergin, in this article in Texas Monthly:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')I’ve always said Dan [Yergin] was a fabulous historian. He’ll write the best history of how we crash.”


Dis! :lol:
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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby Twilight » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 16:10:44

Coming Soon: CERAWeek 2008!

Assorted coverage of WEF.

Of particular note is the following on the unfolding economic crisis:

CNBC: Recession? Debate Is Really About New World Economy

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CNBC', 'S')o did CEOs there expect a recession? "The truth is people really don't know," said Cambridge Energy Research Chairman Dan Yergin, who attended Davos. "It is a bit of a hot house atmosphere where every five minutes we're taking the temperature of what's going on with the global economy. Small talk at noisy receptions was all about global GDP."

"The speeches were balanced between prudence and caution and outright pessimism," said Yergin,
who is also CNBC's global energy analyst.

The upbeat crowd at Davos though were those from emerging markets or from commodities exporting economies, or both. He said the debate was centered around the idea that the U.S. economy could be "decoupling" from other economies and the question of whether they are strong enough to stand up on their own. But he says from discussions he heard, it seems the Europeans have now "decoupled" from the decoupling debate and believe their economy will be impacted by a U.S. slowdown.

"If the emerging markets continue to be engines of global growth even if the U.S. goes into a downturn, it will tell you we are in a new chapter of global economic history," said Yergin.

So what's the feeling from these emerging markets that so much hope has been pinned on. "The Chinese message at Davos was "We are rooting for you. We don't want you to slow down," said Yergin.

I'm rooting for Yergin, imagining him lost amidst all that pessimism and desperation. I bet the spread was awesome, but the parties must have been a real downer.

Anyway, he probably doesn't realise it, but he let slip a couple of very interesting observations...

[smilie=new_popcornsmiley.gif]
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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby pup55 » Fri 15 Feb 2008, 09:32:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Greenspan made his comments in response to questions by Daniel Yergin, chairman of CERA.
Greenspan said he would like to see additional use of electric cars.
Nuclear power makes the "most sense" to increase U.S. power generation when all trade-offs are weighed, he said. "We have to use nuclear," Greenspan said. He said more discussion is needed before any "cap" is created as part of a U.S. cap-and-trade carbon program.
A carbon cap would likely lead to lower economic activity and higher unemployment if one were set before emissions-cutting technology is widespread, Greenspan said.
AP via Yahoo
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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Fri 15 Feb 2008, 12:04:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ergin said he could foresee oil prices surging as high as $150 in the next few years or falling as low as $40.

"Yergin said he could foresee the sun coming up as far as the east horizon, or falling as low as the west horizon." :roll:
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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby Chesire » Fri 15 Feb 2008, 12:52:04

Yergin and lot of other notables are just keeping the lemmings pacified. Until they have completed their doom preps :lol: Some day one or more will get up and say [i]Hey retards you are screwed and have fun playing Mad Max for real [smilie=cya.gif]
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Re: Yergin Watch

Unread postby pup55 » Fri 22 Feb 2008, 19:15:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he most recent bombshell wager: Cambridge Energy Research Associates report that alternative energy investments will -- hold on to your hats! -- top $7 trillion by 2030. That's an audacious number by any measure, and normally it would be enough to suck the oxygen right out of a convention of wind-farm enthusiasts. But that's not the half of it. The most startling aspect of the report is that it barely raised a ripple in the investment community.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut CERA is no pump-and-dump stock scam operating out of an abandoned warehouse in Jersey. It's a respected global advisory group made up of serious economists and energy analysts and headed up by Daniel Yergin, a recognized energy expert and Pulitzer Prize-winning author.


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Yergin Bobble Head

Unread postby Gandalf_the_White » Fri 11 Apr 2008, 19:41:58

It's time is'nt it to get the Danny Bobble Head into production. We can leave some on top of pumps at local stations with a card that says, 'Don't worry oil ill soon be $35 per barrel. Affectionately, Danny.'
We must be at 2.89 yergins by now. And now the poor natios of the world are trying to eat our carbon dioxide emissions while we keep humming along and slurping steak flavored McShakes.
I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
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Re: Yergin Bobble Head

Unread postby Novus » Fri 11 Apr 2008, 19:55:16

Yergin has to be one of the greatest fools of all time to make that prediction when he did. The greater folly was that half the industrialized world believed him. Good god 2.89 Yergins.
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Re: Yergin Bobble Head

Unread postby Gandalf_the_White » Fri 11 Apr 2008, 19:57:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'Y')ergin has to be one of the greatest fools of all time to make that prediction when he did. The greater folly was that half the industrialized world believed him. Good god 2.89 Yergins.

Actually it's over 3, 35X3 = 105. Hey you were the one who brought out the concept netoil, this thread by what's-his-name has a great graph showing the souring of the crude supply. Netoil in my mind.
BTW, when we have an issue like peak oil the numbers game just irritates me so I don't see much practical difference between 2.9 and 3.2 yergins so I'll give em 2.9 on a nice day. It's like the global temperature rising 6.2 F in 100 years and someone saying we did'nt predict it because we only forecast 5.6 F. Deesh! [that's the sound of the back of my hand bouncing off someone's brain cap]
I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
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Re: Yergin Bobble Head

Unread postby bodigami » Fri 11 Apr 2008, 21:08:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gandalf_the_White', '(')...)2.89 yergins(...)

wtf is a yergin? is it some form of measure?
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