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Origins of modern humans

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Origins of modern humans

Unread postby vampyregirl » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 01:04:48

Back in high school biology we were taught that Australopithicus was ancestor of modern man but now scientists are saying Austalopithicus was not our ancestor and in fact was an unrelated species. i guess noone knows much for sure?
And was the Neanderthal our cousin or unrelated to us? theres all kinds of theories as to why they went extinct and whether they could have cross bred with homo sapiens.
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby Flowerr » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 01:10:09

They don't know, but it has to be anything but the truth, they don't want the truth.
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 01:36:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vampyregirl', 'B')ack in high school biology we were taught that Australopithicus was ancestor of modern man but now scientists are saying Austalopithicus was not our ancestor and in fact was an unrelated species. i guess noone knows much for sure?


The newest evidence, based partially on DNA clocks, suggests that modern humans evolved and came out of Africa only ca. 100-150,000 years ago. Australopithecus was extant in Europe and Asia in the Pliocene, more than 2 million years ago.

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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby FreakOil » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 06:45:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vampyregirl', 'B')ack in high school biology we were taught that Australopithicus was ancestor of modern man but now scientists are saying Austalopithicus was not our ancestor and in fact was an unrelated species. i guess noone knows much for sure?
And was the Neanderthal our cousin or unrelated to us? theres all kinds of theories as to why they went extinct and whether they could have cross bred with homo sapiens.


That's not surprising. The "family tree" of mankind has grown increasingly complex with the discovery of more primate remains since Lucy. There's all sorts of dead ends, species that are related to man but from which we did not descend. It's pretty well accepted that homo sapiens did not descend from Neanderthals, although some say there may have been some interbreeding.

There's a theory that Scots, as well as Welsh and Irish, may have genes passed down from Neanderthals. The theory is based on red hair. Apparently, the gene for red hair is very old, from before modern man left Africa. But there's no way that people carrying the gene for red hair could have survived in Africa, because people with red hair also have pale skin, which is unsuitable for survival in southern climates.

Therefore, the gene must have been passed down from people living farther north at the time, Neanderthals. After Homo sapiens migrated out of Africa, they shared the continent of Europe with the Neanderthals for millenia, so it's possible they could have interbred.

I don't know if I believe this. Here's a link to an article about it. I read a more in-depth article a while back, but I can't find it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1322006/posts
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby katkinkate » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 07:38:29

I could also be, the gene/s for red hair and pale skin is a relatively recent mutation that survived in the north because it was advantageous there.
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby dorlomin » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 08:44:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('katkinkate', 'I') could also be, the gene/s for red hair and pale skin is a relatively recent mutation that survived in the north because it was advantageous there.
Pale skin is a huge advantage in nothern climate because it absorbs far more ultra violet energy than dark skin. This is necessary for processing vitamin D in the body and peventing rickets.

Given the very limited sunlight in Nothern Europe, over the 30 000 years the lighter skin would have been a very strong selecting force, as the offspring would have been less vaulrable to rickets.
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby dorlomin » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 09:00:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vampyregirl', 'B')ack in high school biology we were taught that Australopithicus was ancestor of modern man but now scientists are saying Austalopithicus was not our ancestor and in fact was an unrelated species. i guess noone knows much for sure?
And was the Neanderthal our cousin or unrelated to us? theres all kinds of theories as to why they went extinct and whether they could have cross bred with homo sapiens.
Lucy was Austropithecus Aferansis, there were several other Autropithicenes around at a similar time and very little fossil evidence to point to which one we were decended from and which ones died out. It had been assumed a single lineage of from the split from other apes to homo sapiens existed, now we now many competing human spieces existed simultaniously.

Neanderthalis emerged from Homo Erectus as did Homo Sapiens. Late gracile Erectus specimens have been suggested to belong to new spieces such as as Homo antecessor and Homo heidelbergensis. The Neanderthalis probibly evolved from heildelbergensis while archaic Sapiens speciment share common features of the gracile Sapiens and the more robust erectus.

Heidelbergensis evolved in Africa and then spread out where he evolved into Neanderthalis in Eurasia.

Sapiens emergence is thought to have been from Erectus to antecessor to Homo Sapiens Idaltu to robust early sapiens. Ie. us.

New discoveries in the field and in genetics constantly update this story and I may be out of date.
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby MrBill » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 12:18:01

All learned men, of course, know that the world was created on Sunday, October 23, 4004 B.C. When the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. (Genesis 2:7)

Genesis I and II does not specifically address the origins of Australopithicus and Neanderthals because Moses only brought along two tablets to write on, and he needed to get back down the mountain because in his absence the people were starting to worship false idols like Zeus and Thor!
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby mmasters » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 14:37:19

I think the standard story is laced with bullshit.

I mean come on, look around all these humans from diverse races, then a bunch of monkeys in the jungle. Why isn't anything remotely between the two alive out there? The gap is large. Are you gonna buy that a couple piles of bones in africa is the gap?

Look as well at recorded history, beyond a few thousand years it's almost a blank slate officially in terms of civilization. I think they are willing to admit 10,000 years being the start of civilization. In any case there's a lot that's not being explained here. For example there are underwater cities discovered that exceed 10,000 years but they are being kept rather hush by the media and being discredited.

I believe the truth will start to come out in the next 5-10 years and it will be quite shocking.
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby FreakOil » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 01:37:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('katkinkate', 'I') could also be, the gene/s for red hair and pale skin is a relatively recent mutation that survived in the north because it was advantageous there.


Hello Katkinkate,

According to the theory, the mutation is more than 100,000 years old. (I'm not sure how they figure out the age of a genetic mutation. I'll have to do some more reading on the subject.) Homo sapiens didn't migrate into Europe until around 40,000-35,000 years ago, so that genetic mutation would have occurred while homo sapiens was still in Africa.

There could be another explanation. I'm not totally convinced either.
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby FreakOil » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 01:41:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'I') think the standard story is laced with bullshit.

I mean come on, look around all these humans from diverse races, then a bunch of monkeys in the jungle. Why isn't anything remotely between the two alive out there? The gap is large. Are you gonna buy that a couple piles of bones in africa is the gap?


There were quite a few predescessors who were a lot like us and also a little bit more like monkeys, but we probably killed them off. We are an extremely competitive species who don't work well with others. That much should be obvious. :-D
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby yeahbut » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 02:25:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'I') think the standard story is laced with bullshit.

I mean come on, look around all these humans from diverse races, then a bunch of monkeys in the jungle. Why isn't anything remotely between the two alive out there? The gap is large.


The gap isn't very large at all- it's probably less than horses and zebras. We just like to think we're far removed from other animals.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FreakOil', 'T')here were quite a few predescessors who were a lot like us and also a little bit more like monkeys, but we probably killed them off. We are an extremely competitive species who don't work well with others. That much should be obvious. :-D


Exactly. How are our few remaining cousins(chimps, gorillas, orangutans, etc) getting on today? Not too well I fear.
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby seldom_seen » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 03:22:23

No doubt yeahbut.

The only reason chimpanzees are not classified in the same genus as humans is because we're "totally all that, with bling and stuff."

Jared Diamond makes the case that if a taxonomist from mars came to earth we'd have:

Homo Sapiens Sapiens

and

Homo Sapiens Chimpanzee
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby spear » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 03:36:54

http://www.travel-to-halkidiki.com/place.php?id=9

There has been a lot of controversy about this because its against many interests.
The global community has gone as far as sabotaging this place and the works of mr. Poulianos over the years.

And then from 700,000bc we go here.

http://www.crystalinks.com/phaistosdisc.html

Notice the word "travel"
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby pup55 » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 05:09:53

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Hey, I used to date this chick.
Had to break it off when she kept trying to pick fleas off of me.
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby dorlomin » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 07:50:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'N')o doubt yeahbut.

The only reason chimpanzees are not classified in the same genus as humans is because we're "totally all that, with bling and stuff."

Jared Diamond makes the case that if a taxonomist from mars came to earth we'd have:

Homo Sapiens Sapiens

and

Homo Sapiens Chimpanzee
It is currently pan troglodytes and homo sapiens. Also in the family are the bonobos and gorrillas (gorilla gorilla) (a further relative is the other of the great apes the orangutang). A reclasification would be either to pan sapiens or homo troglodytes. It has been 6 million years since the last common ancestor. During this time we have experianced an increadibly fast evolution that has brought us to being bipedal an enormous differetiation, opposible thumbs, an astonishingly complex vocal region and many other very very distinct taxonomical differentiators from other great apes. Taxonomicaly we are further from the other great apes than they are from each other, inspite of our closeness geneticaly to chimpanzees.

I tend to disagree with the reclassification argument.

On a side note since we split from the last common ancestor we have had three well established families of speices, homo, australopithicine and paranthropus. Paranthropus is a robust (heavy set) early humanoid that probibly split from australopithicines and were more likely to have been very vegitarian. Speculation that at points all three families may have had individuals living on the same continent (our direct ancestor at that time would have been homo habilis).

It is believed our most distant dictinct ancestors emerged from rain forrests or swamps so the bones decompose very quickly and leave few fossils. Out ancestors were not particularly common until recently so also left few fossils in the much more fossil friendly savanas.

Those asking about genetic clocks, they work by mutation. Mutations are assumed to happen at a relatively steady pace. Taking gene sequencies that are still the same it is feasible to look at the mutations that have occured between two samples and work out how long since they split. The technique is new and has some critics but has been strongly corrolated to field excavations on a variety of spieces.


Real doomers should check out the Toba Catastrophy theory for when we (homo sapiens) were very nearly wiped out about 70 000 years ago.
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby dorlomin » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 08:40:45

Nice summary, certainly clearer than my rambling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o ... _evolution


And the day doomer porn came true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory
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Re: Origins of modern humans

Unread postby killJOY » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 08:53:40

I be Pan troglodytes sapiens da homo ala bonobo.

Check the genes, not the face color.

We'll all, all in the same bucket.

If "Lucy" isn't a direct ancestor, she's a cousin.

And James Brown is your daddy.

It's the most magnificent area of study there is, bar none.


Too bad we evolved to hate one another so fiercely...
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